Official Luthiers Forum!

I had pretty good luck with Zinser Bulls Eye Sealcoat, Hesh.
I think about as close to grain alcahol in these parts as we`re gonna find without looking to the good old boys down south is Everclear.

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

I'm not much of a french polisher but have used the hock stuff. Seems good to me. I think the thing the hock stuff has going for it is the alcohol they provide.
My guess is it's coming out of here http://www.woodfinishsupply.com (liberon)as hock is really a blacksmith and located in same small town as these guys. Liberon has good supplies for finishing.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

shellac.net

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

Hi Hesh,

Check out Shellac.net

They have a good selection and at good prices. Also, I just bought some grain alcohol yesterday here in Indiana. It's sold at any liquor store. Ohio does not sell grain alcohol.

Cheers!

John

I've used Hock's stuff too and gotten great results, on tool handles, kids'
wood projects, scraps and everything I could get my hands on before
doing the koa terz. Love the results. Did have some problems early on
where I think I was putting on too much in each session and had some
dust contamination in my fads, but with Michael Payne's advice it came
out great. I've also used shellac.net stuff. It was fine.

I used Ron Fernandez's video for guidance too. It was a huge help. I
would bet Robbie's is a great resource too.

Blonde shellac does have a slight amber tint.

I used walnut oil that I got at a gourmet grocery store, 'cause it said 100%
pure on the label.

I think you're gonna love FP, Hesh. One thing I like about it is how I go to
the shop, get the stuff out, and be building finish within about a minute.
When I'm done, there's no cleanup. Just put the pads in small jars and
close up the containers with the finishing materials in them. I also like
how it gets you very close in touch with the wood, and it's sort of magical
when the finish starts to build. Plus it dries to touch in fractions of a
second.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Shellac.net appears the same as liberon wihich is the same as woodfinishsupply.com.
Isn't the world of internet stores amazing?

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Lee Valley has pure walnut oil too.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Hesh,

I'm using LMI's "very light blonde" flakes which are dewaxed.  It gave my sitka top a warm amber tint.  The attached pic looks fairly accurate on my monitor but may look slightly different on your system depending on how you have your monitor calibrated. 

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Doug Mills
Chicago, Illinois

Hesh, I've used the Lee Valley flakes and their house blend lacquer/shellac thinner.

It worked great for me. I tried both the orange (waxed) and the super blond (de-waxed). I remember Alan Carruth mentioning that the waxed stuff is supposedly better and creates a 'tougher' finish... I think they echo this thought on shellac.net as well...

I think you need to use de-waxed if you were to spray something else over it...

The super-blond does impart a very slight tint.

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

I have not been able to get any response from the folks at shellac.net for over a year. If someone gets a response, please let me know.
Whole Foods sells Walnut oil-it is very tasty on salads as well. Spectrum is the brand I get because Hain has vitamin E added as an anti-spoiling agent. Keep your unused walnut oil in the fridge and it will keep a very long time.
Most polishers feel that wax is a weakening substance in the shellac film. My current thinking indicates that heat processing of shellac makes a more durable finish. I finished a recent guitar with button lac. (If it is in little round wafers with the maker's mark stamped in it then you know it was heat processed). It does seem to be harder than the blonde stuff. It is too early to tell for sure. I have some Kusmi button lac coming in from Homestead Finishing, which is another good place for finishing supplies and shellacs.
I was disappointed that some blonde flakes I recently got from Kremer did not dissolve-a sure sign of old flakes.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Copied from the shellac.net site

Dewaxed Shellac

Why all the fuss over dewaxed shellac? Well, it has superior clarity, and is an excellent undercoater (other topcoats like lacquer, oil-based and/or water-based varnish won't stick to waxy shellac very well). Our prices on dewaxed shellac are so good, there's no reason to use waxy shellac, unless you have a specific application (restoration, instrument- building or canoe-building) which requires a waxy shellac.


fyi

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Zac

Anchorage Alaska

Finshed my 1st! See #1 here

Hesh...Just to add another slant here. My input on shellac types comes from Richard and Marshall Brune', who have FPed a gazillion or so guitars over the last 3 decades: They say dewaxed shellac has been processed more than the regular variety and hence, is inferior. After mixing up the regular shellac let sit over night and carefully decant clear shellac off wax, which settles out to the bottom.

I have used both blonde shellac flakes from LMI and Zinsser shellac from Home Depot (both thinned to about 1/2 pound cut with Everclear) with excellent results.

BTW, I have Ron Fernandez' video on French Polishing if you would like to have a look.

Regards,
Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

[QUOTE=Jim_W] I'm not much of a french polisher but have used the hock stuff. Seems good to me. I think the thing the hock stuff has going for it is the alcohol they provide.
My guess is it's coming out of here http://www.woodfinishsupply.com (liberon)as hock is really a blacksmith and located in same small town as these guys. Liberon has good supplies for finishing.[/QUOTE]

No it's the same guy who makes the blades, Hock Finishes, liberon is different.

[QUOTE=MaxBishop]   My input on shellac types comes from Richard and Marshall Brune', who have FPed a gazillion or so guitars over the last 3 decades: They say dewaxed shellac has been processed more than the regular variety and hence, is inferior. After mixing up the regular shellac let sit over night and carefully decant clear shellac off wax, which settles out to the bottom.
Max[/QUOTE]

The Brunes use seedlac, which is raw lac that has only been washed. By letting the wax settle to the bottom, they are using dewaxed shellac. You can chemically remove the wax, which is what the commercial dewaxed does. I have not found seedlac to be any less prone to dulling with sweat than the blonde type.
Zac, I don't know why the folks at shellac.net would have made that remark about waxy shellac required in instrument making. I don't know of anyone that is polishing guitars with waxy shellac, but would certainly be interested to know if anybody is and what their results are.
There has to be a missing link in the way we are French polishing today. Look at any old Martin or Washburn guitar from the latter part of the 19th century and unless the guitar has been terribly abused, the finish still looks fantastic.
All shellac used to be handmade, (i.e. melted in a canvas bag and squeezed through the mesh) before the advent of solvent extraction. I exchanged emails with Ron Fernandez last week and he told me that Eugene Clark also believes that heat processing increases the toughness and hardness of the shellac film.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Hesh...if you have any canned Zinnser dewaxed shellac, you can cut that with ETOH and start practicing the technique. It's 2# out of the can and I cut it in half to get a working solution. Michael P., Colin, and some of the other more experienced FPers have gone to the canned shellac and report no difference from the flakes. I've also used it with good results.

Let me know if you need some Everclear (190 proof ETOH)...it's available in Indiana.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I don't think anyone mentioned using olive oil. We keep it around the house so I just used it and it seemed to work okay. But then that’s all I’ve ever used, I got to get some walnut oil and try it, sounds good on a salad too.

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

I used extra virgin olive oil as its quite a bit easier to find than walnut oil without additives. The only source of pure walnut oil that I know of is Woodcraft. I am using Hock flakes as they were highly recommended by a person at the Canton, MI Woodcraft store that does high end furniture finshing. I don't have the experience of having used a large variety, but the Hock flakes seem to work well.

My next experiment is to use a bit of Sandarac and Copal as added hardeners. Both materials are available from art supply outlets. The formula that I am going to start with was posted here six or eight months ago.

The entire text is 110 pages of interesting reading:
Project Gutenberg's French Polishing and Enamelling, by Richard Bitmead


   12 ounces of shellac.
   1 ounce of copal.
   1 ounce of sandarac.
   1/2 gallon of alcohol.

I have only been making batches of shellac using 8 oz of alcohol as a little goes quite a ways. An 8 oz batch is plenty to do a guitar, maybe two.

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

I've found olive oil to be slipperier than walnut oil. I've used walnut oil as an additive, as suggested by Eugene Clark. He feels that walnut oil, being a drying oil, adds to the toughness of the shellac (even though they always remain separate in the mix). I don't have much FP experience, though, so I can't offer a testimonial.

Yes, both Woodcraft and Lee Valley have pure walnut oil. I've used the Hock shellac flakes, and they arrived well-packaged and fresh. Though I haven't used it yet, I have to say I'm really impressed by the way Hock packages their alcohol product. It's in a clear plastic bottle with a plastic screw cap, which makes it both easy to pour without spilling, and easy to see how much is left in the bottle.

The best price I've seen recently for shellac flakes has been at Homestead Finishing: homesteadfinishing.com

The best price I've found for Hock alcohol is at Tools for Working Wood: toolsforworkingwood.com

[QUOTE=jhowell]
My next experiment is to use a bit of Sandarac and Copal as added hardeners.    
[/QUOTE]
Definitely keep us posted with the results of this experiment. I found that the addition of copal and sandarac actually made the film softer!

_________________
Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large