Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey gang -

Almost ready to bind my first body, wondered which adhesive to use for rosewood binding?  Would good old Titebond be sufficient? 

Thanks!

Jon

Titebond is great for wood bindings. I use DUCO on celluloid.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I've always used titebond for wood bindings with no problems.

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

Is anyone using CA? 

...and I'd really appreciate opinions on gluing wood bindings / ABS purflings all at once.

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Dave
Milton, ON

Speaking of ABS purflings (and bindings) - is anybody actually liking this stuff? I use the low setting on a heat gun to pre-bend plasting bindings on the mandolins I'm working on, and the ABS stuff is VERY finicky compared to whatever the 'older' stuff was. One second it's not bendable, the next second it's nearly melted, and for sure delaminated. CA does seem to hold it to the wood fairly well, however.

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Rick Jones
Rochester Hills, MI
http://home.comcast.net/~rajones19

This may sound like heresy to some, but on wood bindings/purflings I am using the ready-to-use hide glue from Franklin. Since my wood bindings are pre-bent to the body shape in the heated side bender, there is little stress to worry about, and the binding itself is really a non stressed component of the instrument. Also, the hide glue "hides" under finishes...not the case with the white glue/Titebond types. If you miss a speck, it shows up like vultures at road kill.
I have done VERY few plasic type bindings, but for those few it was either Duco or the Weld-On (on celluloid). I have avoided ABS as I feel it's best used in sewer pipes!

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Hank Mauel

[QUOTE=Doug O] Is anyone using CA? [/QUOTE]

I am, for wood, plastic and celluloid. I used to use Titebond on wood bindings, but this is more relaxed and more predictable as I can control and adjust every line and all miters until I am satisfied, and freeze that situation with CA. What's not to like?

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I use CA, Titebond and LMI glue for wood, and CA for plastic.  If you use CA, make sure to seal the end grain on your top before gluing.  CA will wick in and stain the top.  CA is great as you can get everything taped in place with no gaps then hit it with CA.  I get much fewer gaps with CA than with Titebond or LMI glue. 

If I am very concerned with staining of the top wood, like I was with the ADI spruce top OOO I am doing now, I use LMI glue.  No chance of wicking with wood glue.

So far?

I have found the original titebond works GREAT on bindings.

I am also a CA guy.  I seal the binding ledge with shellac and fit the bindings and using the Stew Mac tape I tape about every 1 1/2 in. or so and hit the gaps in the tape with thin CA. Then I remove the tape and hit the rest of the gaps. Works for me.< ="text/">_popupControl();

Just a note to all those using superglue...from one who dealt with a "year's vacation" from luthery due to repiratory ailments: Beware the fumes from superglue! They are as bad for you as lacquer, acetone and others of that ilk found in much of the finish materials used in luthery.

PLEASE use a mask (organic vapors 3M in my shop) when working with superglue and especially when accelerating it's curing time as it off-gases faster in that situation. I have all but eliminated the use of superglue in my shop. I know it may be inconvenient for most current users, but remember that GREAT guitars have been built for MANY years before superglue arrived on the scene.

Just a helpful note so you young guys can live a healthy life and get to my age without lung problems!

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Hank Mauel

I've started using CA for all types of binding and do as Ron suggests. So far so good.

As for Egyptian chairs that are thousands of years old held together with HHG, I'll bet they would have used CA if they had it back then

Hank,

Thanks for the tip on the premixed hide glue. Built a lot of parts on my first guitars that way (BTW it sets much slower than HHG, and skates longer, IE it doesn't grab as quick as a PVA) So cold hide glue has soe place. Don't just write it off.

Also welcome is your advice on (lung) health. I am a professional painter. I use a respirator on almost all interior jobs (yes including latex) Chemicals are bad. Period.

Thanks again for the input buddy. Bless your health!

Up to now I've used Titebond but on the binding I'm about to do I'm going to use the fish glue that Colin kindly sent me a sample of. I'm very impressed by this stuff, and love the control I get being able to brush it on where I want it with an artists brush. Like hhg with the more friendly open time.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I'm learning how to I’m learning how to use fish glue; so far I have only done some braces and bridges, on this guitar I’m building now I’m using it for as much as possible. I haven’t gotten to the bindings yet, but I will probably use it there as well. FWIW, there is a thread over on MIMF now with some cautionary tales about fish glue, you might want to check it out.

As far as long term stability of CA bonds, that is a legitimate concern. The glue line is very brittle; it seems to me that the larger the glue line the more prone to breaking it is so you better have a good fit. I was recently installing and end pin jack in a guitar that had a butt wedge (!) that I had glued in with CA. It popped right lose when I was drilling the hole...

The Egyptians probably used all the glues that were known in antiquity, and that included different types of hide glue, bone glue, casein glue (milk glue) and yes, fish glue...

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Now, I THOUGHT I had proof read my message before posting. Sure wish I could edit...

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

[QUOTE=Hank Mauel] Just a note to all those using superglue...from one
who dealt with a "year's vacation" from luthery due to repiratory ailments:
Beware the fumes from superglue! They are as bad for you as
lacquer, acetone and others of that ilk found in much of the finish
materials used in luthery.

PLEASE use a mask (organic vapors 3M in my shop) when working with
superglue and especially when accelerating it's curing time as it off-gases
faster in that situation. I have all but eliminated the use of superglue in
my shop. I know it may be inconvenient for most current users, but
remember that GREAT guitars have been built for MANY years before
superglue arrived on the scene.

Just a helpful note so you young guys can live a healthy life and get to my
age without lung problems! [/QUOTE]

I certainly agree. CA and accelerator makes my skin break out with a
nasty eczema type thing. A respirator really helps though. I even use a
full-face mask because I'm convinced the vapors come through the eyes
or skin.

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

I should add that I use the CA mainly for tortoise and ivoroid bindings. with wood bindings I use Tightbond or the LMI equivalent. Thanks for the heads up on the toxic vapours. I do use a respirator when I am using a lot of CA. For a drop here or there I don't worry about it.
Debate is good.
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[Quote]I wonder though if any of the masters of our craft (insert names like Somogyi, Fox, Olsen, etc.) use CA for binding. Any one know?[/QUOTE]

Charles Fox had an article in GAL a while ago detailing his method of binding/purfling using pipetted CA and tape.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Hi Jon. LMI or Titebond for me.

Have you cut your ledges yet? I heard you showed your guitar body to a "focus group" I hope everything is going good!.... We need pictures!

Long

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

I have to agree with Hank about the fumes. It may be just my hyper-sensitivity to CA but just a small whiff and I have an allergic reaction, about an hour later, that I can only describe as an asthma attack. It took about a year of exposure to the fumes for this to develop.....beware.

I no longer keep or use CA in my shop.

Tom Armstrong