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I memorized it about 15 - 18 years ago, didn't know any better than to think I couldn't play it, and was able to get through it, but not at any level to brag on.  Now, I would be hard pressed to play anything solo, since I spend all my time playing in an ensemble.  It develops bad habits when you are not studying solo work with a teacher, and playing your one part, of four or five, is so much easier.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I once took a drawing course at the local adult ed program. In my course there was the one student who we all thought was light years ahead of the rest of us. One class the instructor was walking around commenting on our current drawings. She stopped at this guy's drawing and just layed into it. She pointed out many things that could have been done better and seemed to find nothing good to say about the drawing.

Next, she looked at my work. She made some slight comment like "that's nice" or "try a darker pencil" and moved on to the next student.

The guy she criticized seemed a bit bummed by it. I, on the other, got the message. "Don't quit your day job"

Since then, I've learned that if the teacher takes the time really examine and critique your work, you're probably doing something right regardless of how brutal the critique might be. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde "The only thing worse than a harsh critique is no critique at all".

[QUOTE=Colin S] I'm currently working on Asturias with my teacher, you ought to hear my version. I play all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order! (Apologies to Eric Morecombe, you've got to be British)

Colin[/QUOTE]

Hi Colin, If you haven't worked too much on the piece yet, you might want to take a look at the transcription by Stanley Yates. He stays very true to the original piano piece (more so than most transcriptions) and his version doesn't rely on speed so much to bring out the emotion of the piece. You can download it for free from his website here:

Stanley Yates Downloads

Good luck on the piece!

John

Wow! This has been a great discussion. I originally posted the the link after Michael sent me a link to it, just for the interesting dynamic shown between the two.

However I was glad to see the discussion go the direction it did. While I don't believe Segovia was intentionally picking on Michael I do believe he was more demanding of Michael as a musicianand maybe a bit out of line

I have taught and worked with teens and young adults in a couple of fields; Drafting, and wilderness survival training. Each will respond best to different types of input.

There are some students that give all they have but will never reach far above the point they are at. I would teach these with a light hand but also would be honest in respect to their standing.

Those that have the ability and talent to achieve more than they believe but need to be shown they can. These need both truthful critical input and a bit of a pat on the back as a plateau is breached.

Those that have all the talent in the world but not the drive to fulfill the promise of their talent. These need a dose of realism, challenge their commitment and you may change their out look and drive.

Those that have enough talent and so much social intelligence that they can con others in to believing they have achieved but in truth have only scratched the surface of there ability. This is the type of student I have problems with. I really have not found a good way to reach these students.

And finally those that have the drive to over come a lack of innate talent. These are the easiest to teach for their determination will not allow personality conflict to interfere with reaching their goal. These are my favorite type of students. they are sponges. I really does not matter if you are a stern or friendly teacher, and at time they may require one or the other to pass a sticking point. but you know they will get past it.

Learning and or knowing how to handle each type of student and get the best out of each is the real job of a great teacher. You can read all the facts on any given subject from a book. You can learn a lot about the subject by reading from a book. But without a mentor or a teacher it is hard to make the knowledge part of you. and that is the key.

[QUOTE=John Elshaw] [QUOTE=Colin S] I'm currently working on Asturias with my teacher, you ought to hear my version. I play all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order! (Apologies to Eric Morecombe, you've got to be British)

Colin[/QUOTE]

Hi Colin, If you haven't worked too much on the piece yet, you might want to take a look at the transcription by Stanley Yates. He stays very true to the original piano piece (more so than most transcriptions) and his version doesn't rely on speed so much to bring out the emotion of the piece. You can download it for free from his website here:

Stanley Yates Downloads

Good luck on the piece!

John[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that John, now safely on my computer, I'll do a comparison with the music from the College library. With any music I always like to get as close the the original source as possible. I'll see what my teacher has to say,(he can be a bit opinionated!).

The Albeniz, is supposed to be my light relief from the serious stuff, the Terraga, as I have been banned from playing Dowland and Purcell on the guitar because I can play them on the lute. Some light relief!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Colin S] [QUOTE=John Elshaw] [QUOTE=Colin S] I'm currently working on Asturias with my teacher, you ought to hear my version. I play all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order! (Apologies to Eric Morecombe, you've got to be British)

Colin[/QUOTE]

Hi Colin, If you haven't worked too much on the piece yet, you might want to take a look at the transcription by Stanley Yates. He stays very true to the original piano piece (more so than most transcriptions) and his version doesn't rely on speed so much to bring out the emotion of the piece. You can download it for free from his website here:

Stanley Yates Downloads

Good luck on the piece!

John[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that John, now safely on my computer, I'll do a comparison with the music from the College library. With any music I always like to get as close the the original source as possible. I'll see what my teacher has to say,(he can be a bit opinionated!).

The Albeniz, is supposed to be my light relief from the serious stuff, the Terraga, as I have been banned from playing Dowland and Purcell on the guitar because I can play them on the lute. Some light relief!

Colin[/QUOTE]

Since you like sticking to the originals, you might enjoy the article Stanley wrote as to why he arranged it the way he did. It would be excellent material to discuss with your instructor.   

Yates article

Thanks again John, background articles like this are fascinating.

My teacher Charles Ramirez is Spanish (well actually from the British bit Gibraltar) so can get very passionate about Spanish music. He was originally taught by William Gomez, before coming to the RCM.

I do like as original sources as possible. With my lute music I like to use as early a manuscript as I can find, and am lucky in my library access. It's amazing how pieces can change over the centuries as they are repeatedly transcribed.

Just to say this has been one of the most enjoyable threads I've known on the forum. Opinions traded without rancour, wonderful stuff and thanks to all that have contributed.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I went looking for the John Williams version.  Here it is.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Fillippo,

Since you invoked Sophocles Pappas, I will share a Pappas story that involves the only time that I met Segovia...

I moved to the DC area in when I was 11 and as a youngster had always been able to pick up an instrument and be able to play it, no matter what the instrument...that is a talent but not an ability as all disciplines take focus, hard work and dedication of time and energy to master. I can usually play most things by ear after hearing them once or twice...note that I am not bragging as that does not mean that I play them well at that point, just that I can hear them well.

I was interested in classical guitar but realized the amount of energy I would need to put in to become a good player. I was 13 when I looked for a guitar teacher and found Sophocles Pappas. He was an old man by then but still had an amazing passion for classical guitar. I had no idea what a legend he was at the time but wanted the best teacher.

When I first met him, the first thing he said when I told him I wanted to learn classical guitar was, "Why do you want to play guitar?", at which point I interjected, "I dont want to play guitar, I want to play classical guitar!" He was surprised that a child would speak so directly but the next thing he said was, "show me your hands" and when I held out my hands, he said, good..."you do not bite your nails and your left hand nails are trimmed...maybe you do want to play classical guitar"...At that point I studied classical guitar.

One day in the early seventies when I was having a lesson, in walked Segovia (who was in town for concerts)...I stopped in the middle of my playing and looked up at this towering man who I recognized and froze on the spot! He greeted Papas and looked down at me and said, "you must not stop..keep practicing and playing for this man (meaning Pappas)" and then turned back and was lost in conversation with Pappas.

I could not play another note as I was mesmerized by this friendship between my famous teacher and the legend Segovia who I thought was the pinnacle of all that was classical guitar.

While I attended several concerts after that in which he played, it was that brief meeting that was memorable even though it was 35 years ago.

I became more interested in composing music than performing so overtime I stopped taking lessons with Sophocles Pappas but have fond memories of him and of meeting Segovia.

I learned in the rigid form of classical guitar study and only relaxed once I also started playing flamenco where the posture and attitude is the opposite of classical guitar although both have their merits and discipline.

I started to build guitars while at Julliard because I could not afford the level of guitar I wanted to play and did not want to appear shabby by playing an old beat guitar.

That's interesting Shawn.  I had a good friend, passed away now, who also studied with Pappas.  He really loved him as a teacher.  This guy was an old timer, and had played archtops with the likes of Stan Kenton during the Big Band days.  Decided he liked classical guitar, and started studying with Pappas.  He became a pretty good classical guitarist.  Played a lot of concerts around this area.  Operated a guitar shop and taught lessons.  I took from his daughter.  He also played in the Segovia Master Class in California back in the 70's, when Parkening and, I think, Lorimer also played.  He also built around 300 or so classicals, and some steel strings.  Most didn't look too good, but they all sounded pretty good. (I have a few of them.)  He felt like looks didn't matter.  Always said to try out guitars blindfolded, and have someone put them in your hands.  His name was Fred Nance.  Very opinionated and direct person.  I think he actually got along pretty well with Segovia, at least from the things he told me.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

If you guys dig a a little deeper onto YouTube you can see Michael's performance for Segovia on the subsequent (?) evening. The second meeting seemed a tad different...

Part 1

Part 2