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Can anyone out there explain to me how to go about jointing back plates with a router? Can I use a PC690 and a 1" pattern following bit using a straight edge as a guide to accomplish this? Also can I joint both plates together?

In the future I'm willing to try jointing with a plane, but after exhausting my funds on wood and other guitar related things, a large plane is'nt feasible right now. I would appreciate you insights. Thanks you

That might work, but I wouldn't bet on it. I've never had a perfect edge with a router.
For a lot less money, why don't you use a shooting board and a block plane? Get a longer block plane than the one in the picture.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

I have had a similar experience to Steve. With a good quality router and a fresh sharp bit I could get close, but never pass the "candle" test. I have been successful with a block plane prior to purchasing a larger plane. A block plane can take some time to get a perfect joint so starting with a router to get close then finishing with a block plane may speed things up.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

Check out the jig Stefan Sobell made to joint his tops and backs with a router. Go to the News page of his website.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Nothing could be cheaper than a piece of scrap marble kitchen counter top and a piece of self adhesive sand paper. I use that for all of my tops.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Ditto on the flea market plane. I'm still attempting to get my Stanley No. 6 lapped in properly, but I can get OH SO CLOSE with it now. And all I did was clean it up, and put a Hock blade in it. Once I really have the sole flat, I think I'll have it knocked.

And fancy shooting boards are really nice, but they're not necessary right now until you have a few more bucks to throw at the situation.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

If you want to use a router you need a way to eliminate 100% of all play. I have see two different setups on on linear bearing blocks and polished guide rails The other was on High end drawer slides. I believe Bruce Dicky uses a system line this. However I would be constantly worried about tear out. I use a shooting board and a #7 jointer plane but any precision ground surface and sand paper will get the Job done. But there is no better gluing surface than a planed joint.

i get perfect joints by running my router along a trust worthy VERITAS starightedge.

Make sure you do climb cuts to avoid chipout.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Thanks everyone for the great responses.

Todd, I have a vintage Stanley 601/2, but figured It was to small for the task at hand. I have'nt used It yet. perhaps It'time to get the blade sharpened.

JJ, thanks for the climb cutting tip. Very important.

Hodges Guitars wrote: Nothing could be cheaper than a piece of scrap marble kitchen counter top and a piece of self adhesive sand paper. I use that for all of my tops.

What kind and grit of sandpaper would you recommend?

Thanks for the picture Steve S.

Lots to go on, thanks everyone.

whilst i have read of using a router to join plates i've not done it.

i've used a jointer, and the shooting board, and prefer the shooting board.

one needn't spend a small fortune to get a good plane. the most expensive plane i have cost me $25, that is if you ignore the l-n small scraper my sweetie got me for the winter solstice.

i've never felt the need to invest in the after market blades, but imagine that they would allow heavier cuts without chatter than the standard ones provide.

i prefer the no. 5 for joining plates. i feel that anything longer is gross overkill. a no. 4 will do the job well also. i do not like a block plane for joining.

what is important to remember is that anything less than the premium planes needs to be tuned, fettled, or whatever you want to call it. this work is what really separates the premium planes out of the box from the run of the mill stanleys, etc. you save a lot of money doing it yourself.

On occasion, I use a router (and a factory edge off a sheet of MDF; very, very straight, that) and a template bit to roughly square and 'joint' edges for a solidbody blank or neck blank glue-up (ie, much thicker). And then clean up with a #5 or longer plane and a scraper, because the router's never quite good enough.

Tuning a plane isn't anywhere near as difficult as one might think, but it does require a little bit of time and attention. And frankly, if you don't have the perseverance to learn something as simple as tuning and sharpening a plane, chances are you're probably not quite ready to build yourself a guitar.

Now, using them just takes practice. Joined a WRC top recently, first softwood I'd joined in a very, very long time, and I had to readjust to not working hardwood again. Didn't take too long, but longer than it took me to joint the last 3 body blanks and 4 neck blanks.

[QUOTE=Mattia Valente]

Tuning a plane isn't anywhere near as difficult as one might think, but it does require a little bit of time and attention. And frankly, if you don't have the perseverance to learn something as simple as tuning and sharpening a plane, chances are you're probably not quite ready to build yourself a guitar.
QUOTE]

Good to read you Mattia

A lot of truth in this statement, but I doubt Mattia mean that if you can't tune a plane you should not build a guitar. I doubt this is really Mattia's intent in this statement. There are lots of ways to build a guitar with out using a plane. But he does have a point in this respect. There are many tasks in the construction of a guitar that are much more difficult and more time consuming than tuning the soul plate of a plane and sharpening the blade, So why not take the time and learn to. This simple hand tool will then become one of your favorites to use. and you will find it has many more uses than you firs thought. and it will add emensly to your craftsmanship.

Mattia, you must have misunderstood me. I have every intention of learning to sharpen my planes and scrapers when the time comes,just as I learned to use tools to build the mold and bending form.I never suggested that tuning a plane was difficult for me to do. I knew from reading that the 601/2 Is not the plane of choice for jointing plates, and that is the only plane I have at the time. Cumpiano mentions in his book that you can achive a satisfactory joint from using a router, however he does point out that a planed joint is better. So i figured I would explore the possibilite of doing It with a router since I own one and know how to use It.

[QUOTE=Mackie].

Hodges Guitars wrote: Nothing could be cheaper than a piece of scrap marble kitchen counter top and a piece of self adhesive sand paper. I use that for all of my tops.

What kind and grit of sandpaper would you recommend?

.[/QUOTE]

I use 220 sandpaper.. I can surface both sides to perfection before you can find your plane...

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Reguards,

Ken H

[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars]

[QUOTE=Mackie].

Hodges Guitars wrote: Nothing could be cheaper than a piece of scrap marble kitchen counter top and a piece of self adhesive sand paper. I use that for all of my tops.

What kind and grit of sandpaper would you recommend?

.[/QUOTE]

I use 220 sandpaper.. I can surface both sides to perfection before you can find your plane...

[/QUOTE]

heeeey, i use sandpaper too, checking it against a straight edge and i have never had much trouble...till you get those pieces that are rough cut.......

MEB

I've been lurking for quite a while now and I,m building a shop on my property. I'm a cabinet maker by trade and am now semi retired so I think I'm about a month away from building my first guitar.

Mackie, can you explain how you joint your tops and backs using the paper method.

thanks in advance,

Peter

For the record, what Michael said; my point is it isn't difficult, but that it's certainly far less daunting or difficult than building a guitar is. Planes can be had cheap, planed joints are best (second: scraped, third: sanded).

Mackie: don't worry, I got your meaning just fine, just soapboxing a little (am a big plane fan).

I understand Mattia Thanks for your contribution.

Piiman Wrote: Mackie, can you explain how you joint your tops and backs using the paper method.
thanks in advance,
Peter


Peter, I think you intended to direct your question to Ken Hodges of Hodges Guitars. I would be curious to hear more details myself.

[QUOTE=piiman]

Mackie, can you explain how you joint your tops and backs using the paper method.

thanks in advance,

Peter

[/QUOTE]

 

Peter,

it is just a piece of cut-off kitchen counter marble top with self adhesive sand paper attached to it.... It is dead flat and a few strokes with the top or back on edge will plane them to perfection.

Just remember to change the sand paper between light and dark woods as the dark woods will leave a dark stripe on the light top woods when you put it together.

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Reguards,

Ken H

[QUOTE=vachterm] i get perfect joints by running my router along a trust worthy VERITAS starightedge.[/QUOTE]

It's trustworthy because it's Canadian, right :)

I've got one of those spiffy helical jointers, and with the proper attention I've made many an unfindable joint. That being said, I'm strangely drawn to the simplicity and foolproofness of Ken's method.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

thanks Ken

It does't seem it can get any easier than that.But isn't it important to have your wood 90 degrees to the paper? seems to me if its not you won't be maximizing your glue surface area.

Peter

peter, think about the geomtry. if the wood is not at 90^ the glue joint area actually becomes larger, not smaller. i have read of some who advocate the joint not being a true 90^, but i can't recall who it was.

that being said, having the joint at 90^ makes alignment much easier, and i don't think the amount of extra glue joint area gained by having the joint off 90^ is of any significance. it is a simple matter to build a fence to keep the joint at 90^ if you want to try the method.

i am not in favour of it, particualrly in view of all the research which shows that a planed glue joint is superior to a sanded one.