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I've put a label in a box I haven't closed yet, and I've decided I'm not completely happy with the label design. So, I want to remove the label. I glued it in with fish glue (Norland high tack). I don't expect it to be difficult to remove, but I thought I'd take the opportunity to learn about how to remove a label without damaging it, as restorers of historic instruments would have to do. Can anyone give me some tips on how to do this, or direct me to some good sources of information on how the pros in the field of restoration handle this stuff?

BTW, this box has a very thin application of shellac on the inside.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I haven't done this, but I have a caution. I would suspect water is involved. An example where that would be a problem is Kohno. Kohno signed the label on my old Model 30 with water soluble ink. I dripped a little water on from a Dampit humidifier, and the signature was half obliterated. I expect some other builders may have used water soluble ink.

Todd, as I see it you have three elements to consider, the glue, the paper, and the ink.

I have never had to remove a label during my restorations, but if I had to the first thing I would do would be to consult or visit the paper conservators at the British Museum and seek their opinion/help.

But first lets consider the glue, fish glue can be loosened with localised heat, starting say at a corner and using a small heat source, and a barrier of foil or kraft paper between the heat and the label work slowly and as each section is loosened insert foil or plastic baking parchment underneath to stop readhesion. The careful use of warm water with maybe some added vinegar could speed up the process.

The paper, what type is it? Is it a laid paper, as it would be in most restoration work (you can tell by seeing if it has a fine grid marking left by the wire of the frame) or is it a modern machine made paper? Life is easier if it's the older laid paper as the fibre length is longer than in modern papers. If I ever used label in my instruments, I don't, I'd always make sure to buy laid papers. Generally paper can tolerate water well, make sure it is de-ionised water so no mineral stains are left.

The ink is more of a problem, is it water stable ink? If not then all bets are off as far as using warm water to help the label removal, and your down to heat alone.

Golden rule of course is not to experiment on the valuable label, print another one, glue it to some scrap leave to dry then test removal methods.

As I said, if someone gives me a Torres to restore and the label has to be removed then my first stop would be the British Museum conservators. As in all things in life, know your limitations.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Bill and Colin, thanks for your replies.

Good idea to glue another label (or two or three) on some scrap and practice removing them. I suppose if one is to learn the art of non-destructive label removal, this label presents a couple good challenges to master: it's modern machine-made paper and the ink is reasonably resistant to water, but by no means entirely water stable. If I put a drop of water on one of these labels and rub it, it does start to smear a little bit.

I really don't have anything to lose with this label as long as I don't do any damage to the box. To avoid that, I'll use warm water if necessary. But if I can get the label off without damaging it, I figure I'll have learned something valuable in the process.

Anyway, once again, I appreciate all your suggestions.

I'll google "paper conservators" and see what I turn up.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

i know this is not really what your question is, However;

If restoring a historic or vintage guitar, removing a makers liable would seriously devalue the instrument

i know this is not really what your question is, However;

If restoring a historic or vintage guitar, removing a makers label would seriously devalue the instrument

I hate spell check

Todd;
Carefully glue a new one over that label!!


Mike

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Mike Collins

[QUOTE=MichaelP] i know this is not really what your question is, However;

If restoring a historic or vintage guitar, removing a makers label would seriously devalue the instrument

I hate spell check [/QUOTE]

We're not talking about permanently removing a maker's label, but if a repair needs to be made underneath, say to the centre seam, then the removal of the label would be necessary, but it would then be replaced after the repair.

I've never had to remove a label, the instruments I restore tend not to have labels, lutes and 18th/early19th century guitars, but I have had to remove the manuscript paper from the joints on several lute shells to reglue the joints, then replaced the original paper. But these didn't have printing.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I would recommend trying a little bit of steam and a slim pallet knife. I removed a misplaced label on one of my guitars by holding the back over a gently boiling kettle, moving the label are in and out of the steam flow and slipping a pallet knife under the label as it loosed up. Be careful to not overdo the exposure to the steam as the heat and water will affect all your glue joints equally.

Louis

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- Louis Freilicher

Oh No! Not another learning experience!

Thanks for your input, Louis. Steam was my other thought, besides applying water directly or dry heat as Colin suggested above.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/