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I finished the guitar, but he says he doesn't have the money to buy it now.
There is a small down payment of only $250. The guitar has a pretty custom rosette that will make it a little difficult to sell.
The guy is not answering phone calls or emails. I'm being ignored. I suggested partial payments.
I'm about ready to find a kid that need a guitar and offer it super cheap or free and be done with it.
I'm in good enough financial situation that I can take the loss.
I guess I could just ship it to the customer and hope he pays.
I do not appreciate being ignored. I understand that theses are hard times for some right now.

What would you do?
This is a first for me, but it makes it clear that I need a lot more down before I start.
What should I do?

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Steve, how long has it been? Are you sure he's ignoring you and not just out of town or sick or something?

I definitely would not send the guitar without most if not all the money if you don;t fully trust him. I don't really have a suggestion for how much time but my next step would be to send him a certfied letter (if he's not responding to phone and email) that outlines your expectations and what the next steps will be if he doesn't come through.

Good luck!

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

This has been going on for about 2 months. He apologized once for not answering my calls and emails. That is when he said he is embarrassed that he can not pay for it now.
In the beginning when we were making up the specs, he answered every email on the same day. He is a college student and has stated that he is always checking email, several times per day. College students always carry their cell phones with them and I have his cell phone number.
Yes, he is ignoring me.
A certified letter sounds like a good idea.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

I certainly wouldn't do that!!!

Youcan always offer it for sale and pay him back the deposit after it sells. You night try offering it at a local or internet dealer as a consignment guitar. Either way it will require some patience.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

There's also payments or layaway possiblities! He's probably reading your emails, and, in fact, embarassed!

Make the offer and advise him of what you intend to do with the guitar. Maybe you should take it to a couple of guitar stores and see what they say.

This might turn out to be a good thing Steve!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

The old saying about hind sight being 20/20 is probably a wise one...

I have a clause written into my contract for 30 days from the date of completion for all monies to be paid. Of course the down payment is non-refundable and the contract says that at least 3 different places. Just to cover yourself from any further legal hassles, I would send him a registered letter. Keep the reciepts from sending the letter as well as a copy of the letter.

I have not faced this problem....yet. With the credit crunch affecting so many people right now, he may just be too embarassed to tell you there will be a delay in payments. I think if it were me, I would send the lettter, then hold onto the guitar for a little while longer than the end date, and in the mean time play the stuffings out of it. I am fond of the "Make a Wish" foundation. If you did decide to give it away, this would be a tax deductable donation and may literally make a kid's final dream come true too.

Wish I could offer more help!

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Reguards,

Ken H

This is all good advice. Do NOT send the guitar. He wins everything. Give him one confirmed chance to make a real decision. If you have to take a loss on the work, do it on your own terms.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

Two thoughts Steve: First perhaps a larger deposit is in order in the future to help "qualify" your prospective clients toward an ability to pay going forward. Rolls Royce at one time had a brochure for prospective customers - the price of the brochure was $500....... Although it was a leather bound presentation quality limited edition book the lookers were separated from the buyers by the cost for the $500 brochure. I am not advocating a $500 brochure but I am advocating a larger deposit as a show of commitment and ability to pay. Especially if any of the adornments will be questionable as to if they could be easily sold to someone else.

Second - I hate to throw good money or time after bad. You have made great efforts to contact this person and it's pretty clear that the person has been contacted and is avoiding you. Regardless of the reason(s) for the avoidance you now have a duty to mitigate your losses and act as a normal, prudent person would to resolve the issue with the least amount of additional damage to you going forward.

Send a registered letter with a 30 day time frame for response. If no response do what you will with the guitar and keep the deposit.

I'm sorry that this is happening to you. With the current economic decline in the US this may impact Luthiers more and more in the future.

yup, what they all said!!

DO NOT send the guitar without payment.

give him a chance the if he doesn't take it, walk away (with the guitar!!)

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My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

I work this way. 1/3 down non refundable 1/3 upon complete construction and ( in the white ) approval. Final 1/3 on delivery. If there is a problem , he gets the refund upon sale and if loss he takes it.
A contact is needed if you don't want to get the dirty end of the stick. Remember this is a business ,even if you are a hobbyist. There is a large investment of time and capitol. Protect yourself.
john hall
blues creek

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

[quote=

Send a registered letter with a 30 day time frame for response. If no response do what you will with the guitar and keep the deposit.

[/quote]

This would be my approach as well..........a business-like solution that's fair all 'round and gives him a reasonable chance to get the funds together (and also sets a time frame for resolution).

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Dave
Milton, ON

This one sounds like a no brainer to me. You have the guitar and his deposit. I don't know if your contract deals with refusal of delivery so I don't know if you have to return the deposit. I suspect that you don't since there are custom features. If you don't need the money immediately, keep the guitar in the shop and use it to show customers examples of your work. If you go to shows bring it along as part of your display. He just paid you $250 to build a "spec" guitar.

Send him the registered letter with the 30 day notice. After the 30 days has expired, do what you want with it. However, I wouldn't give it away or sell it at a large discount, though. Sell it if you get a good offer. If he shows up later with the cash and you still have the guitar, sell it to him. He'll think that you were very understanding. He's embarrassed that he can't pay. He told you that he doesn't have the money so continually asking him about it won't help.

No offense to Ken, or those that share his opinion about this, but this is the exact opposite of the approach I would take.

The bottom line is you can't get blood out of a rock... so all the registered letters in the world won't put the money in the kid's pocket to pay you.

I would let him off the hook with either of two options.

1) If you can place the guitar at a dealer (Guitar Gal, etc.) I would just tell him that if he wants out of the deal you will understand, and leave it at that. Once he says yes send the guitar to the dealer.

2) If he still wants the guitar then I would construct a promisory note and give it to him on the 99-EZ payment plan. I would make him come up with some money now to do get it going and then a managable monthly payment (with a steep front loaded interest rate). If you are talking about dumping the guitar cheap or giving it away, you have little to lose by trying this. Sure, he might flake out on you and not pay, but he also may be sincere in his desire to own the guitar but is between a rock and a hard place with respect to finances.

I just don't see the value in getting hard with someone in situations like this. It won't make them pay and only makes the situation more uncomfortable. I think giving him a way to save face and you a solution for the guitar is a more productive path.

(and I would raise your NR Deposit considerably)

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I don't know Brock why you would want to expand the deal with this client to include a finance arrangement AND an ultimate increase in the price of the guitar, when you figure in interest over time, when as you said you can't get blood out of a rock.

Sure this client has clearly demonstrated that their ability to pay is questionable so in my view what Steve needs now is a clear title to the guitar so he can do what he would with it and not have the original customer come back with a claim against him. Hence the registered letter which was never intended to get the customer to cough up money that they probably don't have - moreover the letter serves as notification, a final notification that the builder is keeping the deposit and selling the guitar elsewhere because of the customer's breach.

I would think that any remedy that has a dependency, current and future, on this customer to make good on the financial end of the agreement would represent undue and additional risk and time for Steve.

Walk away but cross the T's and dot the I's.

Or you can always just give it away to them too

I come from a guitar player's background. I also nearly pulled the trigger on an Avalon Gold handbuilt at the Newtownards factory in Northern Ireland. A deposit was to be paid, and a build time would be given.

Once I paid the deposit, I would have started up a monthly savings plan to have the outstanding monies ready for when the guitar has been completed, in roughly three-six months.

As it was, after I recieved the quote and had a chat with sweetie, I spent that deposit on zoot (woe is me!!! ) and thanked Avalon for their time.

I'm sorry, but a guitarist SHOULD have the moolah ready when the guitar is ready. It's irresponsible and inconsiderate to the luthier for labour and personal elements undertaken- there is usually plently of time during the build process to get the full funds; beg/borrow etc...

I think a bit of "grace" time should be allowed, like a month (gives the time for the guitar to be settled in) and be strict with the cutoff. How important is that guitar to the player?

If you "give in" once and let the customer have their way, word might get out, and you might have a whole realm of sloppy payers beat a path to your door.

I'm sorry Steve that this has happened to you, I can fully appreciate the time you have taken to build this guitar despite family and work commitments. I know I'd be pretty cheesed off.

Well, maybe someone said this, but I missed it. You said that you are not desparate for the money now, and that you thought the customer started with good intentions, but he may be embarrassed (frightened even?) that he cannot pay, or even sick. You could just set the guitar aside. What is the rush? Send him a regular letter offering not a very strong ultimatum. Tell him that if he cannot afford the guitar, he should let you know so that you will sell it to try to recoup some of your loss by selling it, and that if you cannot get full price, his deposit will be forfeit. (I know, most of you would forfeit the deposit regardless, but there appears to be not a very clear contract up front.) Tell him if you do not hear from him within whatever time you want to tell him, then you will go ahead and sell it--BUT you would really rather hear from him even if he must back out, just so you will not worry about him.

Now regarding the custom rosette deducting from the value. Unless it is very personal (like his name or college fraternity), then custom can be promoted as more valuable--not less.

Sounds like that registered mail is a waste of the 5$ and your time to the PO. He obviously changed his mind.

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Build log

I honestly don't understand the agonizing over this. The guy can't come up with the dough and probably never will. Cut your losses, keep the meager deposit and move on. Consider the opportunity cost you lost by building a guitar for him when you could have been building one for a valid customer. You can never make up that time!

Business is business...you did more than was expected and that included a way too small deposit. I would recommend not doing that again and begin charging a customary 30% non-refundable deposit.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Sending a registered letter is a waste of money...he doesn't want it because he can't pay for it. Just move on and find a different home for it. I wouldn't refund his money either, since you're probably going to get less for it than the original agreed-upon price.
While we're talking about it...let's see some pictures of it!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I hear you, but I am sort of working from two assumptions. (And remember I still think the dealer is the best option).

1) he is mentally ready to write this instrument off and either dump it cheap or give it away.
2) cash is king.

So, the as the logic goes, maybe he doesn't have $4000 (or whatever) to pay off the balance of the guitar, but he could come up with $150 / mo. for how ever long it takes. Again, if you are mentally writing off the guitar it is a total loss, so anything you can get for it is better than nothing. And maybe his intent to pay is valid but it is his ability to swallow the entire purchase price that is the problem. People lose their jobs, unforseen expenses sometimes hit and circumstances change -- that is just a fact of life. So maybe you could salvage him with a payment plan, plus make it worth your while in terms of extra value from a steep interest rate.

I guess this is just a chance at making things work out because if you harda** him he just won't pay and you are going to have to take the loss. That is clearly the least desirable option. (at least it is in my book).

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Thanks Brock - I understand your point now.

There is always waterboarding.........

Thank you for your input.
I am OK with payments, I really like this guy and want to see him get the guitar he is so excited about. He was very active in the design.
This guitar is a high-school graduation gift. The money is coming from the father. The kid is in college and doesn't have any money. I don't know the situation with the father, but lots of people are having a hard time now.
I talked to him a few weeks back and he is truly enthusiastic about the guitar and wants it.
I don't need the money to live on and can wait for payment, but I really do not like being ignored. It is the ignore part that makes me want to not wait.
I think it is reasonable of me to ask what his intentions are, if he can make some sort of payments. I think I deserve an answer.
I sent an email last night explaining that I would like an answer and that if he communicates with me, I can be extremely patient. The obvious implication is that if he does not communicate, I will not be patient. Yes, it is a little threatening, but after being ignored, I felt I had no choice. I'm in the strong position with the non-refundable down payment and the guitar.
I hope he comes through. I really like him.
BTW - He wants a pickup and I offered to put a Wavelength in for free, but he said that would not be right and that he would not feel good about it because (his words) he has been such a lousy customer.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

You are a very honourable and generous luthier Steve, and I pray that it will all be resolved soon.

With J.J. and Brock. You got what the guy is going to do at this point. If he doesn't pay he doesn't pay. Learned a lesson and apply in the future.
IF giving it away and not selling, call the local Vet Center, regional office, hospital etc. and see if they may know a disabled vet who is a player and could use a really nice guitar. I do give to kids still, but mostly of those who dad's or mom's KIA or WIA or to the vet themselves. Just the direction been led to for me, but other avenues out there. Some can and will pay also.

Sorry for my soapbox

Forget it; move on; build guitars. It sounds to me you are wasting your time trying to collect. I know from experience that it isn't worth the effort. jack