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Does a guitar built to tighter tolerance settle less?My first acoustic sounded like a shoe box at first then got better and better after a couple of days of "settling".I have read that this is common.I just wonder what's up with this.
big John

John,

All the guitars that I have built have changed in the first couple of days, and then even more so at the 4-6 month stage. I think one issue with me is the nitro finish...it takes a few months for it to cure completely, and I think this contributes somewhat to the change. I have literally strung one up, handed it to my father, left for an hour or so, and heard a difference when I returned.

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Brad Tucker

Could be the finish. On the other hand, it happens with guitars strung up in the white too. They change as they're being played. I've put together old garage sale basket case guitars (one was a 30s L-00) and the sound changed a lot in the first hour as if they were new. My first guitar went through lots of change the first year, then almost nothing the second year, and in its third year, two or three episodes where it seemed to have changed a lot from one session to the next. I built a guitar for my nephew and a few months after he got it, he asked me if it was possible for the tone to change as he played it. I can't quantify any of this, but either it really does happen or I and many others are seriously delusional.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Guitars change all the time. Actually, not just guitars but every instrument changes continuously over the course of its life. There are many reasons for this. I'd wager that many of the initial changes that you will experience are coming from the various parts setting into place with eachother and the wood and joints adjusting slowly to the new tension placed upon them. Then over time, you get changes from humidity, climate, temperature, string tension, etc. All of these things change constantly and therefore, your guitar changes subtly from minute to minute. Sometimes these changes are more evident than others, but I wouldn't expect any instrument to completely settle to a point where there are no changes at all in tone or timbre.

Yep guitars are very dynamic in terms of change and some of these changes, that we believe that we can hear, can be dramatic too.

One of the guitars that I built sounded absolutely terrible right after I strung it up. I could not believe it and was bummed to the max. I checked and rechecked the intonation, scale length, things like a possible lifting bridge, loose nut, tuners, what ever I could think of and it all looked fine. I could not even tune the thing properly it sounded so terrible.

So like many things in life when I am frustrated I leave it alone for another day and hope that something obvious will occur to me in the meantime.

The next day I reluctantly picked it up and it sounded fine........ Go figure........ And it has been sounding better ever since as it opens up and was the guitar that Mark Swanson played in the videos that I posted of the last Ann Arbor gathering.

I never discovered why this guitar sounded so very bad initially or why it improved. I honestly wish that I knew in as much as I am the sort who does not do well with unexplained things - even if the results are an improvement.

Humidity will change the way a guitar sounds too. On humid days IMHO guitars sound less responsive, more sluggish, not unlike I probably feel and sound too. In the winter when the humidity is low my guitars seem louder to me, more responsive, and of course you can at times notice a lowering of the action as the dome of the top shrinks.

I wanted to mention something else too that I don't understand at all. Some woods when you tap them before they become a guitar can sound pretty bad. But these same woods once turned into a guitar can sound excellent. Go figure again....... BRW for example sounds great before it is a guitar and after it is a guitar. But I have built with other woods that can have no ring to them what so ever but once made into a guitar sound fine.

So much to learn, so little time.......

Great comments guys .Thanks.So if I am hearing this right. Any guitar...from a newb build to a super clean tight almost perfect pro guitar...will settle in and change through the years,and perhaps quite a bit the first couple of days. I guess I was just startled by the extreme change in my first....granted it went from a shoe box with strings to...O.K. for a first so at least it was a good change. ,but it did leave me questioning the fit of my joints.The action changed a bit...but not SO much.I am amazed at how alive acoustics are...just makes building even more like magic.I guess the wood just needs to get used to being a guitar not a board or tree .
Thanks again...peace and respect(bow),
big John

Big John buddy this changing is completely normal and many times here people will ask us what to do because their guitar sounds less then great off the bench. We always tell them to play the heck out of it for a month and then see what you have.

Something that you will notice too is that the bass will generally improve with playing and time as the guitar opens up and becomes accustomed to being a guitar....

Some builders will position new guitars in front of large speakers and subject them to hours of "Smoke On The Water" too in an effort to get them to open up or commit suicide......

Thanks Sir Hesh....I wonder if the live album works better than the original Machine head for forcing a guitar to open up?. .
seriously....thank for the advise..sorry if I asked a "typical" question....but this is how we learn.
peace,
big John

John,

I just experienced "the change" with my first. When I first strung it up, it sounded tinny and thin. Not quite a shoebox, but close. After about 30 minutes of playing, I started getting more response. After a couple of hours...what a difference. It was like the thing came too life. Exhilarating. Has me completely hooked on building. Magic indeed.

It is really staggering what a few months of playing will do for a guitar, at least one with a Spruce top. I'm not sure the differences in Cedar are as dynamic.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Big John my friend - no, no, no....... Never be sorry for asking any question here. If someone has a low tolerance for repetitive questions it's likely that they will just not respond. Also know that nearly every question that gets asked here will be of interest to someone as well. Your questions, no matter how often they may have been asked prior, will help a bunch of people because you asked them.

And we have all manner of folks coming to the OLF at different times so it's a perpetual learning environment but without the hard walls and the principals office (where I spent a lot of time..... but not enough.... )

So with that said - Thank You for asking! Seriously! Also - the live version probably would work better......

Repetition is a long established teaching method. It works here too.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hey thanks to all...we newbs tend to walk on eggshells ....hoping to ask good questions and not offend or be misunderstood along the way.Sometimes I can't quite find the right word to search with...but I am getting better.You guys are great .
and Waddy...your classical guitar build album is super good,beautiful guitar....lot's of info for us picture oriented folks.
thanks as well to mffina,Michael ,pat and Brad for the reassurance.
peace and respect to you all,
big John

Like today!!!

My settled-in #3 guit sounded fantastic the last few weeks, today everything feels sticky, the wooden doors feel sticky too, real humid day with plenty of precipitation...just had a very unsatisfying 1/2 hour on the guitar tonight, it's no wonder it sounds so muddy...

I remember reading a story of stained glass windows in some cathedral in Europe that was built in the 1500's, where the windows had to be reworked and in the process the restorers realized the the glass was thicker in the bottom of the individual pieces than the top!

They mused on how the original glazers could do this, or even why they would! Typical process, at the time, was just to pour the molten glass on a flat surface, then cool and temper. After a while, it was found the glass was actually sagging and getting thicker at the bottom. The constant force of gravity over 500 years was making the glass droop molecular!

I'm very sure, even though empirically, I have no proof, the wood under the stress of the guitar strings, pulls the wood to tension, and then takes a set so to speak. As time continues, this set changes, allowing even more stiffness in the top. To imagine, in honest terms, a product like spruce, or even the side woods, are static under long term tension is impossible.

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I buy that completely Billy bro - humans do this too.......

interesting...I lampwork glass a bit as a hobby as well and you got it Billy it is in a constant state of flux....
Even in older houses you can see the rippling.which brings up another question which might need a new thread....
but here it goes....any one out there using glass(Boro)bridge pins...just a thought....I might melt a little glass and give it a try...Boro glass (Pyrex) is super hard.Not trying to reinvent the wheel...but it seems like it would work.I sure would look interesting.
big John

If I remember my materials science engineering course from the late 80's, glass is considered to be in a liquid state. Hence, the droop in vertical panels.

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

Billy, that's fascinating stuff!!