Official Luthiers Forum!

I came across a video showing what is a apparently a new, UV cured varnish system that has no VOCs. At first glance, it looks too good to be true. Here is a link:

http://varnishmarine.com/

Does anyone have any experience or know about this stuff? Would it be good for instruments?

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Wow, looks interesting. UV lamp prices were very high.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

That looks really interesting.

Those hand held UV light scare me. My fear is even with the proper safety equipment some UV rays get to the user. I won't publicly voice any more of my UV safety concerns, but feel free to PM or E mail me if you'd like to hear what my fears are based on.

Even without my fears I don't think UV cured finishes are necessary unless you're finishing a BUNCH of guitar. If I was doing that I'd build a cabinet.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

You know I was reading about this stuff recently also, I wonder if you could fabricate a UV light to cure the finish. Does anyone know what this stuff costs per gallon?

.07 to .13 cents per gallon. if one gallon covers 1608 square feet (the only spec I could find was on the super hard topcoat) that's a minimum of $112 per gallon.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I was wondering about the UV light requirements as well. I don't really need the 2 second cure time. It was the other features of the finish that are of most interest to me, i.e. no VOCs, adhesion, hardness etc.

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

I wonder if a less intense UV source would just take a bit longer to cure, and could be potentially much cheaper?
I was very impressed, especially with the hammer test!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Looks very durable and shiny. I would be concerned about the thickness and it's effect on sound transferance. With that said, it would speed up the finishing process a lot which is a plus.

I wonder what the resin actually is. It's properties, except for the UV blocking look similar to polyester.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Thickness is almost certainly a non-issue. 3 mils or less is recommended. I also found this on their page: http://www.admiraltymarinecoatings.com/ ... t/uhc.html

Which is supposed to be ultra hard and goes on at 1mil. If that's all they say it is with a good surface prep you could probably use that as a lone finish of 1mil thick.

This does sound like an uber cool product. They do have a contact me page - perhaps someone with an almost finished guitar can contact them and get them to send a sample out as well as a loaner U/V lamp. The pitch would be "I'm on a forum with 100 other luthiers and if your stuff works, you'd have yet another market"

As mentioned, the only rub is the cost of that UV lamp.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I did send an inquiry to Admiralty a couple of days ago and got this response from Mr. Graham Duncan this evening:

"HI Pat:

Thanks for your interest in our products... I just read the luthiers forum and may respond there also.

The benefit of UV cured coatings is elimination of cure time, produce a very tough coating and contribute zero VOCs to the atmosphere.

This technology has been used for decades in factories where the high speed cure process can be precisely controlled, it is now being introduced to the smaller producers with the advent of hand held UV lights.

Typically our coatings are applied by brush, roller, spray or dip in a clean environment and UV cured.

We provide Gloss, Satin and Matte finishes... Gloss is usually at the 94% level.

If an clean environment is not available, then using the Gloss finish and after cure a light sand with a 2,000 or higher grit provides a perfect satin finish.

The major issue for a small company is the UV Light expense but it is a critical element in the proper full cure of a coating at the wood interface (adhesion), the body of the layer (toughness) and the surface layer (hardness).

This takes high energy levels at three different UV wavelengths (UV a, b & c) and some UV lights will not quite do it.

If you have any questions please contact me.

Best regards,

Graham

619. 207. 7778
http://www.admiraltymarinecoatings.com
"Our Solution Stops Pollution""


I assume Mr Duncan means this forum and wouldn't be surprised if he answered directly as I've noticed him join in a couple of other [boat] forums.

Looks like there are no half measures with respect to the light. Still, even with the cost of the light, the total is less than what can be spent on some of the more expensive tools. And if it works as advertised it could be worth it even for smaller shops.

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Am I missing something here? All UV or post-catalyzed polyester finishes are 90-100% solids. Nothing new here. From a health safety standpoint it is still nasty stuff, but yes, spraying polyester is better for the environment due to the low VOCs.

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Randy Muth
RS Muth Guitars Website
RS Muth Guitars Blog
Facebook Fan Page

Thank you Pat for bringing the information I emailed you to this forum.

I would like to suggest that interested members provide me with some samples (scrap) of wood that are ready for coating.

We will coat them in several types of product and return them for your evaluation... including the process information.

Your evaluation of the coated samples could then be shared with all interested participants of this forum.

Best regards, Graham

619 207 7778

Has anyone taken Graham up on this offer yet? I have some off cuts I could sand out and send. I'm definitely curious about this... - Justin

I called Graham and told him I would be sending him some wood. I'm going to gather some up today to mail out tomorrow. I don't think he'd mind getting some from more than one person.

Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Anyone wishing to send varnish ready (small) wood samples for us to coat and return are welcome to mail them to:

Admiralty Coatings Inc.
23520 Telo Ave., Bldg #8
Torrance, CA 90505
619 207 7778

Best regards,

Graham

Hi Pat:

Received your samples yesterday, thank you... we will be coating them in the next few days and return them for your evaluation.

Best regards,

Graham

Thanks, looking forward to it Graham.

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Hi Pat:

I sent the samples to you about a week ago... I look forward to your comments and questions.

Best regards,

Graham

619 207 7778

Thanks Graham,
I haven't got them yet. I'll let you know when I do and also I'll be posting pictures here.
Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.