Official Luthiers Forum!

I've started my first electric - a Les Paul based on the Stewmac plans and various other stuff I've found on the internet.

The body is 1-piece African Mahogany (Khaya, not Sapelli) with a maple top. This is the first time I've worked with Khaya. It is very similar to Honduran in terms of density & workability but it's bitter. It smells fine but it's the only wood I've worked with where I can actually taste it after cutting & routing.
Here's the back

And the front


And here's some fingerboard inlay that I got from mopsupplies.com
This is the crown syle (Les Paul Standard)

And here's the block style (Les Paul Custom)


I'm using a rosewood fingerboard so I think the white MOP crowns look better - not so busy.

Now, on with the boring questions:

Bridge & tail piece.
Do any of you have experience with the aluminum tail piece vs. the regular - I guess it's a die cast Zinc alloy? The aluminum is about twice the money. Worth it?

Nashville bridge or ABR-1? The Nashville has inserts that go in first then the bridge posts go into the inserts. The ABR-1 just has posts that I assume get epoxied into the body? The Nashville seems like it's better engineered but I've read some chatter on the internet (so it must be true) that says the ABR-1 sounds better. If I go with an ABR, I could change it out for a Nashville (bigger holes) but going from a Nashville to an ABR-1 wouldn't be as easy. Opinions?

Electronics
I'm thinking of doing a coil split & I want to use Seymour Duncan 59's. I want a classic rock, blues sound. I don't know which push/pull pots to use. Stewmac offers one but some of the customer reviews say the quality could be better. Gibson offers one but is it really much better for about twice the money?

Thanks in advance.
Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

OK, Kevin -
First of all... looking good on the project so far!

Tailpiece.... aluminum? don't see the point when diecast zinc alloy (pot metal) will do. Only Eric Johnson can tell the diff, anyway.

Bridges.... I've used both for repairs, mods, and builds - I see and hear no diff in response or sound.
On the ABR I think the posts are simply pushed in (that's what I always did, and I don't remember any instructions from the factory when I was a Gibson authorized service center). I wouldn't bother with epoxy - it would confound any repairman later.

Coil split? Mini-switches are OK, too. Whatever you do - just don't buy junk. Sorry - I'm no expert on electronics these days.... so no recommendations.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Thanks Chris.

One thing I forgot to ask is which make of tune-o-matic bridge - Gotoh, Stewmac, Gib$on ? Are they all pretty much the same in terms of quality?

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Never bought a StewMac unit, Gotoh is OK, and Gibson is good, but too much money.
Don't forget Allparts - those guys are the stuff when it comes to guitar hardware.
And there's always Schaller - good German stuff.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Nice project so far. My first couple of builds were LP copies for a set of Stewmac plans. Great way to get started and not have to worry so much about measurements, angles, etc. etc. Yes, I like the MOP inlays better--esp with rosewood.

Here's my opinions, for what they are worth. I've built about five or six guitars with T-o-M bridges. I use the Gotoh units with very good results. I do not think the aluminum units are any better, and like Chris says, most of us would never know the difference. I do like the fact that the Gotoh units have slotted posts, which allow action adustments w/o taking pressure off the thumbwheels with a bridge jack of some sort. Try adjusting a bridge with thumbwheels only without jacking the bridge and you will see what I mean. I also like the mounting of the intonation screws better than the mounts on the ABR units.

I also prefer the studs and bushing units as they seem a bit "beefier." The bushings just push in with NO epoxy. No need for it, and it will bedevil anyone who needs to work on the guitar later on if you use it. I have found that if I get the holes to where the bushing will push in with your fingers before finishing, that adding finish with "tighten" them up a bit. Sometimes I use a hot 100 watt soldering iron to push my busings in. The heat will slightly melt the lacquer that has bult up in the hole and will allow the bushing to slip in. Once it's in, you will need some sort of bushing puller to remove it, but it can be done.

As for electronics, I can't comment much. I've never used S/D PUPs, mainly because I think they are a bit pricy and the units I have been using seem to have a tone that suits me fine. Again, I am not even sure if I could, eyes closed, tell a S/D PUP apart from another model. I have used the push-pull pots from Stewmac, and they worked out fine

Thanks for the reply E.

As for PUP's, what make(s) have you been using. I'm new to building electrics & have no experience with different PUP's. My friends like Seymour Duncans and they cost about the same as DiMarzios which are much less than pickups made by Gibson.

As I said earlier, I'm looking for a tone that leans towards classic rock & blues. Any more shared insight/experience would be appreciated.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I like Schallers bridges with the rollers on them. I think they stay in tune quite well.

I don't know SD's but I've played around with some Dimarzios. They make good pickups. I was given a D-Sonic bridge pickup by a friend and it's pretty nice. They seem to make pretty versatile and reliably-good sounding pickups. Classic rock? Pretty much most humbuckers will cover that I think. Coil tap doesn't make me think of classic rock, but I could be wrong. I like having a series/parallel switch better, because you get that nice bright sound of a single coil without all the noise (humbucking).

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http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

Kevin, for buckers, I've used the Stewmac Golden Age PUPs, and I have been very pleased with thier sound. I like the "overwound" sets as they tend to have a fatter tone. I recently tried a set of GA P90s from Stewmac, and they too had a nice tone and output. I've also put a couple of sets of Toneriders in my single coil guitars. Generally speaking, I never spend more than $100 for a set of PUPs. I've owned several guitars with DiMarzios, and was not overly impressed, although they were good PUPs. Sometimes I think what you pay for when buying the "name brand" PUPs is the "wow factor" of being able to say "it's got Seymours" or something of the like. Just my opinion, however. I'm sure others would not agree.

Is there a reason to use a roller bridge in a guitar without a tremello unit behind the bridge? Not to be argumentative, but how would a roller bridge help a guitar with a fixed tailpiece stay in tune?

Kevin,

Are the plans you are building from actual 'les paul' plans? or are you adapting something ?

I can't find any les paul plans on stewmac's website.

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Jim Hansen

It makes things overall smoother for tuning and staying in tune. If you think about a Tune-o-matic style bridge the way they are typically made, there obviously has to be an angle on the bridge and because the tension pulls from the bridge, which I always thought was rather sharp, to me it just seems the tension can get a little imbalanced and would be easier for it to go out of tune because the tension could be different on the neck side of the bridge than on the tailpiece side.

Basically with a roller bridge the tension is balanced all the way to the tailpiece or wherever the strings actually stop. I have one guitar with a roller bridge and it stays in tune like a tank compared to others that I typically have to tune before I play.

_________________
http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

I want to be able to get a single coil tone or as close as I can get from a humbucker while still being able to get humbucker tone - Jimmy Page meets Jimi Hendrix. The series/parallel option is something I haven't looked into yet. I didn't realize it will have a similar result while still keeping the noise cancelling qualities.



That's weird, I just checked Stewmac & I can't find the plans either. They are the Don MacRostie plans that have always been sold through Stewmac.

Thanks for all the replies. I've got a lot to think about.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

It looks like LMI still has the plans

http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/thirdproduc ... tric+Plans

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I've never liked the sound out of a split hum. It just doesn't sound like a single coil. Fralin has some Unbuckers which are supposed to work good with split coils but I have never tried them. I've used the Dimarzio push/pulls before and they work well and are easy to solder to. I would go for some lower wind humbuckers for the sound your after which is less compressed like a single coil. I've liked the Lollar low winds and Wolfetone Dr. Vintage in an LP.

According to a poster on the Les Paul forums who claims to have called Stew Mac, they stopped selling the plans at the request of a "Copyright Holder".

That would have to be Gibson, eh?

_________________
Jim Hansen

So assuming it is "G", would that would be official confirmation that the plans are accurate?

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Dunno. Seems fishy to me since LMI is still selling them. Maybe they just didn't get the memo yet, or are selling out of current stock?

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Jim Hansen

The (no longer available) SM plans are reportedly slightly inaccurate.
I recall reading a never-ending-pointless-thread bashing these plans.
Do a search for John Gatto's plans, which are available as a download and reportedly accurate.
There is an accompanying dimension sheet as well as the body and headstock plan.
Let me know if you can't find them.

John Catto....

Good luck with your build, Kevin.
I've played around with a lot ofpickups,
and, what I've found is, a humbucker split will not sound as good as a single coil,
but, pretty close!
So, classic rock, Led Zep?
Humbuckers sound more strong,
single coils more musical.

I tried to order the LP plans from Pilgrims Project and they said they no longer can sell this item but wouldnt say why. You can see on their website now that the plans are no longer listed.

http://www.pilgrimsprojects.biz/guitar.html

As a machinist, I make my own bridges. Having made the same design out of both 6061 aluminum and 360 brass I can tell you there is no discernable difference in tone or sustain on otherwise identical guitars.

The Les Paul standard uses the Gibson 500T p/u in the bridge position and the 496R in the neck slot. I, for one, love the sound of my Les Paul for blues and rock. The last set I put on a guitar I built were Seymour Duncans. They recommended the SH2N-Jazz for the neck and the SH-1B 59 for the bridge. Turned out pretty well though I might try a higher output p/u on the bridge next time. This combo is also recommend as a direct replacement set for some PRS's.

This clip is me playing one of my builds...mostly using both p/u's in full humbucker mode. The lead work is processed too much to really hear the p/u's natural sound....but I'm very happy with this set as a blues player.

http://www.recordingproject.com/bbs/vie ... hp?t=40374

The split coils are thin and weak...as you would expect. I still like that sound a lot though...for strummed rhythm tracks.

The only thing that may get close to what you are looking for are P-Rails. Seymour Duncan SHPR2. They allow switching from humbucker mode to a P-90 coil....which is almost like some straight P-90's I've used. It's hard to say without directly comparing the two....which I can't right now. The P-Rails are pretty cool but in HB mode they certainly don't have the output of a typical high output humbucker.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Thanks for letting us know about the bridge material, Zlurgh.
Just to make it a little harder for you, Kevin,
I recently a/b-ed the S.D. hummer against an EMG hummer,
both with the same 14k ohm output, both passive,
and, well,
they both sounded great,
just different....

I can barely hear a difference (recorded & distorted) between my Les Paul and my EGC aluminum neck thru (lucite body, too). In the room the acoustic differences are huge, but recorded there's only a slight difference. And the pickups are quite different designs!

A string vibrates on two fulcrum points, the bridge saddle and the nut. I think what affects sustain most on electric guitars is the stability in the relationship of the two fulcrums.....relative to each other. A vibrating string will natrually lose energy from elasticity and friction but it will lose more energy sooner if that energy is transfered through one or both fulcrums and into the supporting media.

The body of an electric, as opposed to an acoustic, has too much mass to react to and be displaced by the small amount of energy in the vibrating strings. What it's made of can't matter much when the vibration can't travel trough the bridge and set it to resonate. It doesn't resonate....period. A semi-hollow body resonates a tiny bit, enough to recieve some the string vibration, filter it through the wood, and feed it back into the vibrating string.....flavoring the tone. But I think in the case of a semi-hollow body the vibration travels down the neck to get that started. I don't think much of the vibration comes through the bridge and resonates the free moving wood of the body. An archtop is closer to an acoustic guitar in that the top resonates more freely and more energy from the bridge is transfered directly to the top. Finally, an acoustic guitar is built with the objective to maximize the energy transfer to the top from the bridge.

If you buy all this then it goes to the point that the NECK wood of an electric guitar, to what degree it has any affect, has the most profound effect on tone. If energy can only be lost through the fulcrum at the neck end...then it follows that the stability of the neck and the wood it's made of will be a controllable variable when determining tone.

I'm processing wood to make roughly 35 necks. I'm making ten guitars with necks that will range from hard wenge to soft port orford cedar...and everything in between. I'll certainly be able to prove or disprove this theory over the course of making these guitars.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic