Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello OLF folks,

how are you? Hope you are doing fine and having a great Christmas Time.

It has been a while since I posted something, perhaps some of you still remember me as the crazy tone wood resawing guy from Germany.
Anyhow, I had to move and at the moment only have a very small working place, but I hope this will soon change again.

Since space is very limited here in my new home, and I can not run any heavy machines, I did a lot of repairs and restaurations the last year or two.
I like to buy broken, damaged, incomplete guitars, put them back to life and sell them again. So far no problems with that.

BUT

Now I am insecure about the following guitar. I would be able to get this really fu..ed up GIBSON Hummingbird Custom. I did my homework, research, had a look in my libary and I would like to date it to 1972 (or 1974) or, what I believe more, it is from 1981.

- laminated 3-piece Maple neck, at least I would say it is maple, judging the color at the neck heel and headstock. Also the lack of any visible pores or sunken in lacquer point me to maple as neck wood.
- the serial number is not a decal like from 1975 non, but a stamped number into the wood. very difficult to read, but I would say something like 600513, but then the serial number would be placed not symetric in the middle of the headstock....strange, isn't it? OR the serial number would be 800513XX, then we have a guitar from 1981, the serial number would be in the middle and the guitar way younger.

BUT: the truss rod cover has had a flat bottom and is installed with 3 screws, what was only done in the beginning of the seventies for a very short time. that's at least what I could find in my literature. Actually the only book giving a bit information is Gibson´s Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars, written by Whitford, Vinopal and Erlewine. Ok...the truss rod cover could have been changed, but the seller claims he bought it from a guy who told it was from the beginning 1970ies....


The guitar went through a basement fire, there is no case included, and I only have the following pictures. The instrument is too far away for personal inspection before doing the trade.
The seller would get my latest project:

A 1991 Gibson Les Paul Studio, which I gave a nice makeover, would come in its original case. I estimate the street sales value at 600€.

What is your opinion, am I doing a stupid trade? I have about 350€ in the Les Paul Studio, another 100€ in the original Gibson Case, plus of course some hours of work.

I would love to do the Hummingbird, but also can not waste some money these days...

My plan for the Hummnigbird would be:

- glue the cracked sides back together
- complete refret, or even a partial refret, but actually I prefer a complete refret and having the possibility for a level sanding of the fingerboard
- clean the lacquer, a complete refinish is not a possibility, since I can not spray lacquer here, and also i think the original damaged finish, this patina and worn look is just fine. Also, in my experience, the Gibson Fanboy Community prefers a original finish above a resin, even if the original lacquer is really fu...ed up....
- of course a new BRW Bridge, bone saddle and nut, bridge pins,
- I am not planing on a neck rest, i hope it is not necessary, but actually i can only decide this with the guitar the work bench.

What are your thoughts and opinions? Worth to bring back to live? Or a stupid Idea?
Looking forward for your answers! Brutal honesty always welcome....

Thank you, cheers, Alex

Here the pictures

More pictures....

And some more....

and the last pictures.....

That thing is a WRECK.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

That guitar has a lot of problems - some visible, and many not. It will be the proverbial "can of worms" project.

If the heat caused that much damage to the neck/bridge, I would guess that most, if not all of the braces will also need regluing. The neck would be best replaced as the laminates are opening up?

I cannot tell for sure, but it also appears the neck block has slipped, collapsing into the body from the heat/string tension. The back will need to come off.

That looks like a fun project if you can get it for free, and have a lot of spare time.

According to Blue Book of Electric Guitars,Sixth Edition,Gibson Serialization,Edited by S.P. Fjestad

Those labels started in 1970. So if the ser # is 600XXX it could be be 1970, 71, 72, 74 or 75. If it is 800XXX then it could be 1973, 74 or 75. late 75 numbers changed to 8 digit. They were pretty loose and wild with the serial numbers from about 65-75.....

That fits with the neck construction and other details.

Without a refinish though it will never be worth the amount you put on the guitar you are willing to trade......

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

If you really want to take on that project, you could offer him 100 euros. He would be foolish not to take it. As Brian said, refinishing would be the best option at this point. The finish on it is not relicked, it's wrecked! If it is nitrocellulose you - might - be able to reamalgate the original finish, touch up the places where it is missing and overspray everything, then buff it out. That is sometimes done on table tops and other flat surfaces, but doesn't always work.
Since it went through the fire maybe you could sell it as "torrefied"

That's funny....Torrefied...!!

That's pretty rough.

It looks like the ball ends of the strings have eaten through the plate, top, and the bridge itself. Its likely got several large holes in it.

The best way I could possibly see to salvage it would be to make a new top for it. Maybe a new neck too.

Ok, thank you so far for your input, I will offer him something else or some small cash, but I doubt he will part with it. Anyhow, building a new top or new neck is no option for me, than I would prefer building another guitar instead....I will keep you updated!thanx!

I still remember Hesh indicating in so many words that there is more money in doing set-ups and fret jobs than doing extensive repair work, and that was for a full time repair business. Considering your situation, if you are looking for a bit of extra income that might be a more profitable way to spend your time. It doesn't require a lot of tools or space. However if you are doing it for the enjoyment and challenge then making usable instruments out of wrecks may be more fun. In that case picking projects you can do within the limits of your situation becomes more critical.
40 years ago I met a guy who haired violin bows. He charged $20 a bow and that included the hair. He could rehair a bow in 10 to 15 minutes, start to finish. It didn't take a lot of tools or space and he did them at his leisure. It was something he liked doing and he was good at it.

Might be able to salvage the pickguard and the fingerboard.

Looks like there are not enough wraps on the string post of the low E string......

On a more serious note, the backstrip looks odd to me for a Gibson.

Hello Brad, thank you for your advice, but after comparing to quite a few pictures I found onlin and in my library i am sure the backstipe is just normal for a Hummingbird.

The guitar is on its way to me and I will have a closer lock and decide with the instrument on my workbench.

I guess everything else is guesswork.....

Looked like a labour of love rather than a business project..

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Hahahaha....yepppp...I have got loooots of Love for guitars.....especially around Christmas

I’m no Gibson expert, but it just doesn’t look right to me. The three screws on the truss rod cover and the strange truss rod nut cavity shape don’t look right. The bridge with the belly down and the strange wood don’t look right. The heel shape doesn’t look like a Gibson heel shape. The pickguard inner curve doesn’t match the soundhole. Google “fake Gibson” and satisfy yourself that it really is a Gibson Hummingbird. If it is, I’m sorry if I cause you extra trouble. It just doesn’t look right to me.

Hello Bob, like mentioned in my opening text, these characteristic construction details are typicall for a 1972-1974 Hummningbird, especially the truss rod Cover with 3 screws, the heel etc...also the bridge is like to spect from these years. Cheers, Alex

I hope you got the guitar for free LOL Hans I/m a frugal guitar guy. and don/t know prices in germany . but it might possibly take more time and labour to repair this guitar for what it would sell for after being repaired. My 2 cents worth, having fixed and repaired hundreds of guitars violins an bows over the past 43 years

Hello Ernie, thank you for your comment.

The guitar is in postal service to me and after closer inspection I will consider what to do. The seller payed already high bucks for it, and I do not want to step into the same trap....

Guten tag herr dalbergia. FWIW when we lived in vancouver bc. When i was not doing cabinetwork in the 80/s I was busy buying up used guitars , violins etc, I had several rules that I tried to keep in mind. I would only buy instruments that could double in value for the time spent on repairs . If I paid $100 cdn . I would expect at least $200 for the sale of the instrument. I never bought basket cases that would need a lot of time or cash , or extra effort or tooling. I always tried to keep the repair work done to under 3 hours. Too much time spent doing a repair, would result in a negative cash flow . Been there done that. So before you consider how much effort it will take , I suggest you double your hours. If you figure it will take 20 hours , it probably wind up at 40 hrs. Murphys Law states that every time you have a repair . it always takes way longer to repair than initially estimated. Ask me how I know LOL Hope this helps.

So, the guitar has arrived an I had a closer look, also took some pictures from the inside with my iPhone and flash, what works actually quite fine...
Here a link to my online photo gallery if you are interested.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FHvLPQiFPjVYVhQN6

Some of you were quite right with their apprehensions:

- Neck Block completely split
- Back Braces loose or split
- arch of the back totally gone, even negativ arching
- X-Bracing loose, split, deformed, bent
- finger braces loose, cracked, split
- Neck S-shaped, with a big hump at the body neck joint, and a deep valley from 1-5
- truss rod without function
- Top arch has also gone negative, with all the loose braces inside...some of them a cracked so far open, even with strong force they won't come back to the top
- Bridge pad inside damaged
- bridge pin holes worn out, destroyed
- to top is partially loos from the rims, the rims also deformed and cracked badly. the cracks don't close even with quite some force

ashes to ashes and dust to dust