Official Luthiers Forum!

I want to try a new type of finish and was hoping you guys could help me make sure I'm going about this correctly. I've been reading the Bob Flexner wood finishing book and the Stew Mac guitar finishing book. I have a guitar with EIR back and sides that have some defects (which I posted about previously). I had planned to do solid black on the back, sides, and neck with a darker sunburst top. Then I saw this guitar finish (see attached photo) on the Fuji Spray website. I like the translucent finish that still shows grain. I was thinking about trying something similar on this guitar. I'm going to be spraying the CrystaLac Brite Tone water based finish over a Z-Poxy grain fill. I have the SM water based dye stains and their liquid pigments for water based lacquers. Based on what I've read so far, I think I should add the dye to the finish and not use the pigments. Since I'm going for a muted grain look, I don't think I would apply the stain to the wood directly. So my question is, how would you go about it?

Practice on something else first, for sure!

_________________
Peter Havriluk

First, Z poxy has a definite amber color to it. This may show through making pores and any other filled areas look greenish under a trans blue.

Second, this was done over a Maple, you will never get a dark rosewood this bright blue unless you make it opaque. The top could be done however.

The picture shows a trans blue over maple with no dye or stain applied directly to the wood. So you will need to seal the spruce and level sand it perfectly without showing any bare spruce. Any imperfections in the sealer or base like spray texture etc will collect toner and become darker spots in the finish. Be prepared to practice spraying too cause this is a tough finish to pull off. Correct gun set up and spray patterning are key to nice even looking transparent finishes.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Thanks for the replies. I should have been clearer. I’m going to still finish it in black or perhaps a very dark brown over the rosewood. No blue. I just want the rosewood grain to show through ever so slightly while obscuring the defects. The top is going to be sunburst from the back and sides color down to a medium to darker amber in the bridge area. I think a slight amber hue from the zpoxy will work well with that concept and the reddish brown accent woods on the guitar. I’ll make sure to have a well prepared surface to spray the toner on. Does anyone have advice on the mix ratio of dye to finish?

I must have missed the thread on the defects but anything dark enough to cover defects in rosewood is going to hide a lot of grain.The darker the toner the harder to keep it even looking. It can tend to get streaky or spotty. Solid black is no picnic either..... one of the most difficult colors to do.



Should be no filler or epoxy on the top.... Spruce has no pores to fill.

Dye to finish mix ratios depend on what dye and what finish to a large degree. 10% is usually considered safe in most applications but some materials can carry quite a color load. Your surface prep of your sealer will depend some on what finish you are using as different coatings have different preferences here with the modern trend being toward rougher sanding inter-coat.

I would advise some test panels for practice and to make sure you get the look you want. Sanding down entire guitars back to bare wood is no fun. I get paid to do that!

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Ben, have you ever done any spray finishing before?

I have sprayed a few guitars, but only clear coats with aerosol nitro and water based lacquer with the Preval system. Recently acquired a proper spray gun and have been practicing on cardboard and scrap wood. This guitar is basically practice too. I don’t mind sanding off the finish if I mess something up.

I would suggest doing a few clear finishes before you tackle this. There is a lot to learn using a spray gun the first time in just getting good coats and an even finish. This tinted finish will introduce too many challenges at once. Instead of a learning experience it will be a frustrating experience.

Totally agree. I’m going to be spraying a clear coat on the bookshelf I’m working on before I do this and continue practicing on the scrap wood and other little projects before I tackle the finish on this guitar. The guitar isn’t even ready for the finish. I’m just trying to do my research now and start thinking about the technique so when time comes to spray the guitar I will be ready.

So once I have a few projects under my belt and I feel comfortable with the clear coat spraying process and am ready to proceed on this project, do you have any advice on this particular technique that you think would be helpful?

Here are some helpful links.
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015 ... rt_18.html
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015 ... brian.html

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Thank you for the links. This is definitely helpful.

Tinted tops are definitely to everyone's taste. Here's my personal take on it. Deep green that takes on different colors depending on the light - emerald green to almost black. I love it, but again, not to everyone's taste.

Getting the right mix of color in the mix is key. I find using a heavily thinned and relatively dark mix of nitro works well. You can build up the color depth without building up the thickness of the finish. I spray and level sand before adding any color. Then just enough finish coats on top of the color to avoid any sand through. It's a balancing act. You can easily build up too thick a finish.

_________________
Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana

That's very nice work you have there. You mention using a relatively dark mix. Are you adding the concentrated dye directly to the nitro, or do you make a dye solution and then add that mixture to the nitro? What would you say the ratio of dye to finish is?

Thanks. I use Transtint or Colortone (same stuff) liquid dyes mixed directly into an about 40/60 (nitro/thinner) mix. I stir with wood tongue depressors that seem to mimic a light-colored top pretty well. The solution looks almost opaque in the jar, but when wiped off the mixer stick I get a good idea of what a single pass would look like. I should add that I'm using a pretty good gun (Iwata) and making sure I am getting good atomization of the spray. Nothing worse than dark spots when spraying color. I did mess this one up once and had to strip and try again. It's still a little thick on this one, but more recent efforts have improved greatly.

-T

_________________
Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana

That finish looks really great, Tony. I made a large walnut desk many years ago that a client wanted dyed a dark purple color. I built up several layers of tinted finish like what you are talking about. However, some of the layers were different colors. A layer of blue topped with a layer of burgundy and so on. The different colors would pop out when viewed at different angles. I loved it and have always wanted to do a guitar this way, but never got the nerve. You have inspired me to try it.