Official Luthiers Forum!

I’m sure you know the one I mean where there’s half an OM and half a 000 put side by side to show where the upper bouts line up and the bridge lies in the lower bout?

It comes up here from time to time but damned if I can find it.

Anyone have that on their clipboard?

That one is 00, is that what you had in mind? I don’t recall seeing a 000/OM version of this, but I’m sure it exists somewhere?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

That’s the one I was thinking, thanks! I’m assuming OM and 000 would line up likewise…

I put that composite together about ten years ago in Photshop, using photos from Martin's web site. It's an OM and 000. They had the most consistent camera positions for the photos of their guitars, but these still needed a little re-sizing to get the fret positions to match. Glad to see it's still useful.

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Indeed it is and thanks for it!

As I understand it the only difference between the two is scale length. that image is one of a fourteen vs twelve fret guitar.

Sorry I confused it, Pat. I thought this was a 12 and 14 fret 00 side by side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

That was my intent, if I recall, comparing a 14-fret with a 12-fret to show how close the bridge positions are between the two.

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Yeah I think it came up as a response to the constant ‘000’s have the bridge in the sweet spot’ conversation…

Here are a couple more from my computer's dusty corners. The OM 12/14 is the same as the one above. The second is a D-18S 12 fret over a 14 fret. Note that the D-18S has one more fret than the regular 14-fret dread. The third is a Norman Blake 000 beside an OM.







edit: Something went wrong: the top pic is a duplicate. I can't edit it out.

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Funny story. Years ago I started building a 000 12F from the StewMac plans. I blindly assumed it was a 24.9 scale. Made the fretboard for that scale but hadn’t braced the top.

I took a trip to the musical instrument museum in Vermillion SD at the University and they had a 30’s 000 on display. The description said it had a 25.4 scale. When I got home and checked the plans sure enough it did. Saved me from having to redo the top bracing.

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

May I ask why you would have had to redo the top bracing?

These conversations can get confusing due to Martin's penchant for reusing nomenclature. I agree that the better title would be something like '12 and 14 Fret-to-Body Auditorium Size Martin Guitars Comparison'

The OM is a sub-class of 14 fret to body 000 guitars, and your shots from the way-back machine (I have seen those before!) do a nice job of covering the bridge and soundhole shifts.

We moved bracing between 000-14, OM, 000-12, and the Norman Blake (14 fret body with 12 fret neck) variants the shop built in 000 and 00 sizes to maintain the relationships between where the upper ends of the X land and the UTB landed, as well to support the bridge wings as desired. My recollection is that Gibson built 12, 13, and 14 fret versions of a few guitars and kept the same body shop with few changes in bracing, so there is likely some wiggle room.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

The OM is long scale and has scallop bracing it was the 1st production 14 fret instrument martin made OM uses 1/4 in braces 000 5/16 bracing
OM long scale 000 usually short scale

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

The early 12 fret triple O's were long scale similar to the D-45 guitars, as Terence mentioned. When they pushed the upper bout down to make the 14 fret OM they kept the long scale. They made the OM for a few years (29-32?) and then went with the 24.9 scale and used the triple O designation for the 14 frets to body instruments of that size.

We had a very early 1933 000-18 in for work a while back (neck reset, refret, bridge replacement with period-appropriate bridge)... identical to the OM-18, but for the neck block stamp.. Shade top, 1-3/4" nut on long scale bar fretted board, and 1940's belly bridge the only thing amiss. I suspect those long scale 000's had a lot more to do with excess OM parts than a desire to produce the 000 as long scale. It may also be that the switch to t-frets and t-bar neck reinforcement and the known trades between scale length and string weight was a factor (heavier strings were more common at that time).

Some of those banjo players that had lined up at the stage door with their Gibson L-5's, Model O's, and Carl Fisher model Martin plectrum guitars at the end of the 1920's likely moved to breadlines by early 1934, and Martin appears to have adjusted their product line with the new reality of the Great Depression and changing tastes in a range of different fields.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan