Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey folks,

I don’t sleep well and pretty often 3am random searches lead me down rabbit holes I didn’t expect. Anyway - here is a link to the full 3M scotchbrite line of products - https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/119 ... ochure.pdf

I use a lot of maroon scotchbrite during finishing to scuff surfaces. I also use maroon / grey / white for fretwork instead of steel wool. A couple questions…

Finishing: Does anyone have experience with the new “durable” hand pads? They seem to be twice-ish the price of the general purpose. If you’ve used it, does it last longer? Does it perform basically the same as general purpose? Here is an Amazon link - https://a.co/d/7pm9ASP

Fretwork: I have always thought that there was a missing step between grey and white scotchbrite. Turns out I was right! The brochure says grey = 00 steel wool and white = 0000 steel wool. The product that I’ve never seen on a shelf before, gold, is said to be = 000 steel wool. Anyone use this before? I’m going to order some to test with. Here is an Amazon link - https://a.co/d/5G4TqIs

Brad


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Thirty-change bucks a box? Auto body shop stock, way too much for me. If it was sold in consumer-sized packaging, I'd try it.

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Peter Havriluk

The grey to white is a bit of a step. Gold sounds interesting but I would only need 2 or 3 at a time.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I will report back on it. I don’t mind buying the bulk if it works. I’ll use it up eventually. Seems that one roll is 30 pads so a buck a piece is fine with me.


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For fret work we greatly prefer sand paper and I am speaking of sanding the scratches off the frets after leveling and recrowning. The reason we prefer sand paper for this is it can be quad folded to be quite stiff so we can get the scratches off the sides of the frets not just the tops. Can't do this with scotchbrite.

For cleaning up a fret board so long as you take appropriate precautions and clean up afterwards OOOO steel wool has cleaned the frets on thousands of guitars in our shop with never a problem from contamination or an electrical short say with a pick up. Not a one.

OOOO steel wool is cheap, works great and so long as you tape off electronics (pick-ups is all I do) and vacuum well afterwards it works great. Steel wool is also available everywhere where Scotchbite is not.

I know some of you are opposed to steel wool use but this has not been our reality on the ground for well over 10,000 guitars, banjos, mandos, basses that we've used it on.

I've recently reduced my steel wool usage and now only deploy the steel wool when the frets look rusted or corroded. I find that Howards works good enough for gunk and grime.

Maroon is good for scuffing finishes which we rarely do except when touching up a Martin satin finish. Grey I bought at the recommendation of Suhr Guitars for brushed nickel pick-up covers, works great.

Hey Hesh, I still use the sandpaper on frets up through the grits from 320 to 800. Scotchbrite is just a final polish before the Howard’s. Steel wool is fine, I used it for years, I just prefer the Scotchbrite.


Steve

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Is this what you're talking about? Howard's RESTOR-A-SHINE POLISHING COMPOUND

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Howard-16-o ... /100592963


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Hey Steve I'll have to try it too as the final step before Howards. What color Scotchbrite for that do you use?

I use it every day on customer instruments and Dave does too. It cleans, conditions and pops figure. It's very popular with our clients too we have converted hundreds of them from various commercial fret board oils to good, ole Howards.

We also use it for fretting waxing the board with it keeps the CA we use to glue our frets from sticking to the visible part of the board.

I even use it on the tip of screws such as when adding a strap button to help lubricate the screw and prevent splitting (I drill too of course).

I wish i had used it on my guitar. I had one hell of a mess to clean up after fretting with ca. Im thinking i don't want ca anywhere near my fretboard again.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

My head is spinning with postings that seem ambiguous to me.

Is the go-to Howard's product to use on new fretboards before fretting 'Restorer's-Shine Polishing Compound' or 'Feed-n-Wax'? Both seem to be in this conversation. I'm looking for an appropriate product to treat a fretboard as a final step before installing the frets, so that any CA I use doesn't stick to the fretboard if some squeezes out....

Thanks!

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Peter Havriluk

Feed-n-wax!

Hesh, I use the grey which is supposed to be around 1000 grit followed by the white (2000 grit) although not sure the white does much good, I just happen to have some in the box on the bench

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

CA is actually with the right process the neatest of any glue choice with the least clean-up. We use pipettes with fresh, thin CA and we simply seat the fret, wick in the CA along the fret on one side and you can see the other side of the fret start to get wet with the glue. We attach our Jaws II clamp with the proper radius caul and spray the caul and fret with accelerator. Couple seconds later we remove the Jaws II.

There typically is no squeeze out but if there is we use Howards on the board prior to fretting and it cleans right off with a single edge razor blade used as a scraper.

Then we move on to the next fret. Works great we've been doing it this way for nearly 20 years now. It's also infinitely serviceable with a little heat on the fret the glue bond breaks and the amount of residual glue in the slot is not very much like we see when people use other glues for frets.

Hesh,
Just confirming that this is what you use, for waxing the board, prior to fretting.

https://www.amazon.com/Howard-RS0016-Restor-Polishing-Compound/dp/B00CFC0268/ref=asc_df_B00CFC0268/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=692875362841&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6291297260930077641&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1012993&hvtargid=pla-2281435179578&mcid=830d7aad91e1360dabf08b79d5c6c622&hvocijid=6291297260930077641-B00CFC0268-&hvexpln=73&gad_source=1&th=1&psc=1

Howard's has several products, with similar sounding names, and other Howard's products were mentioned earlier in the thread. I wick in ultra thin CA on my frets, and am interested in anything that will cut down on cleanup time.
How do you avoid getting the compound into the fret slot?

Nope, this one: Howard’s Feed N Wax. To keep it out of the fret slots just don’t put too much on your rag and apply it carefully. It’s easy.

https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Products-FW0016-Feed-N-Wax-Conditioner/dp/B001BKQYGW/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wjUnzameXfXQkKuJO1UCpRRhcdkJ9hvm2Y5xUej4TzYwQ1ghOeRKq5VMwGHnbd4OYED3IMpKy9GPYTRq8ZoLXsd7HKhu_uBK7NJJPKXYdEnTDkr8cQIKe5FCgUpi7g8mz_imPmAaFi7Te5b0r1Zz_QkHcg0THA4ggRnjPGs_HQ9Tn8kZPOkjddttZdynE2DPD9C6u-SDTwPlc2nt__GMHw.d8i4wOG5Z_YKblUNMJaaFDrdviH5DWX6MBEEYmaFiCg&dib_tag=se&keywords=howards+feed+and+wax&qid=1721403396&sr=8-3


Steve

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

JTB what Steve said, thanks Steve.

Thanks. I found it at the local Home Depot.

Hesh mentioned 'Jaws II' as a fret setting tool of choice. I about fainted when I saw S-M's $170.00 price. My arms are too short to reach that far into my pockets.

Cheapskate that I am, I found a similar clamp on TEMU using an f-clamp with a fixture adapting the moving part of the clamp to a fixture holding the brass cauls. Twenty-six bucks.

Anybody ever used one of these knockoff tools?

Thanks!

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Peter Havriluk

Happy days. I'd been trying to absorb Hesh's advice about fret installation (Feed-n-Wax, clamping the frets in position, CA to lock in the frets...). Fifteen shop hours later my Evo Gold frets are happily living in my current project neck. Most satisfying fret installation I've done. All three steps Hesh mentioned, I did for the first time. Learned a whole bunch of new stuff!

THANKS!

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Peter Havriluk

Id love a link to that temu clamp.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

Good going Peter and glad to hear it's working out for you. I wish you had taken our courses when we offered them you would have had a great time and I would have liked to meet you and work with you.

My best time on a refret is about 6 hours but we are all jigged-up to work fast and efficient and I don't take breaks usually. My bet is you will halve that time or better when you have done a few.

If you ever have any questions feel free to PM me. I'm the sort who never should have been exposed to classified information and I am always happy to help.

I couldn't find a link to the item, here's the Temu product description: "professional guitar filigree inlay tool kit".

It works, it's cheap, it's rough-and-ready. No cauls come with the tool, and I haven't yet found any on the site.

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Peter Havriluk

I'd like to offer some enthusiastic feedback to Hesh about his short course of instruction about fret installation - - - which I followed as best I could. The guitar's been sitting on a stand in my music room for the past week just getting used to being a guitar. Hesh, I've never encountered an easier-playing guitar than this one, which I'm happy to have and which I don't deserve to own. I cannot wrap my head around how spectacularly important it is to do the best job possible setting up the fretboard. I sure learned a bunch!

THANK YOU!

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Peter Havriluk