Official Luthiers Forum!

found this guitar on a local "ebay" type site in new zealand, anyone recognise it?

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/31/24915531_full.jpg
http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/51/24915651_full.jpg
http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/31/24915731_full.jpg
http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/39/24915839_full.jpg

or maybe a guess on age, or country of manufacture would be way cool, thanks in advance guys, and cool forum by the way, just been looking around

It's old, that's for sure. Looks early 1900's, maybe a bit older than that. Almost Martinesque, but I'm not sure. Nice details, and it looks like BRW to me.
Sweet little guitar...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

The design has a Baltic influence to it Looks very well built My guess is it is German built.MichaelP38931.7496643519

Hey Molitovv !! Another Kiwi ! Welcome to the O.L.F.

Ya better hang around, there ain't many of us !

Regards , Kiwi

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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ooh cool. i knew it would be old, but not that old, lol. a few more questions, if this guitar is restored, is it likely to sound any good? or just look good, and can anyone pick the materials used, wood etc? and any other info on a possibe maker would be awesome. also do you think it would be worth the work?

bump

Hi Matt, welcome to the OLF!

I would not even think of restoring it, i'd even put some insurance on that guitar if i were you! i'd also have it appraised ASAP, you must be sitting on a gold mine,

really serge, what makes you say that? i think it is a really nice design, i like the detailing and the shape, quite unusual

If Don is right, i'd bring this to the Antiques roadshow, they will make an extensive search for it's origins, they'll also give you a good idea of how much an instrument like this is worth!

The fact that it is not restored adds to it's value!

I think Serge, Michael and Don are right. It is old and a collectors item. It certainly has a nice shape...

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

It looks late 19th C to early 20th C to me -- say 1860s to the 1920s. It also looks American. Looks like the Martins and Washburns from that era (cf the Martin 0-30, circa 1906 or Washburn "1897 Style"). German-built instruments from that period tended more toward the Viennese school with a narrow waist and an upper bout that was almost as large as the lower bout. They also tended to use bone rollers for their tuners, rather than steel ones, although I have played on an early 20th C German-bult "trammel" guitar that had steel rollers. But it had that Viennese body shape.

The bridge looks out of character, being what looks like maple, and I'll wager that it has been replaced. This is common with old guitars. Looks like they did a decent job replacing it, however.

This guitar, judging by its cosmetic appointments, definitely was not an "entry model" but probably close to the top of the line that this builder made.

I take it there is no label? Did you win the guitar at auction yet? If so, I would recommend that you use an inspection mirror and examine the interior for any information the builder may have recorded on the underside of the soundboard.

I would recommend that you contact Len Verrett, who owns the Early Romantic Guitar website. His email address is on the home page. His area of expertise is the guitars used for classical music during the 18th and 19th centuries, but I'll be willing to bet that he can provide you with some useful info regarding this one.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Michael, that's exactly what I was thinking. It looked Martin-esque from that era, and the thought it could be a washburn entered my head too. Then I saw the adjustment hole for the adjustable neck, and wondered if it could have been built by Martin.
Not sure at all... but it's a nice looking piece, could be of value.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Don,

I missed the hole and went back and looked. Hmmm -- I wonder if that was original. I don't see any sign of an adjustment mechanism. Maybe the screw was lost and the neck was permanently attached? The neck doesn't have the "V" shape at the heel that the Staufer-style adjustable necks have, and the body does not appear to be inletted for it. So, I'm wondering if somebody might have drilled a hole there for whatever reason. Looks like the bottom of the heel was broken off right where the hole is, then reattached.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

thankyou so much for your answers michael, kiwicraig said you guys were helpful, and you really are. i will contact that guy and see what he says, cheers for your help guys. if its not worth anything i would probably restore it. i have never played a old guitar, what do they sound like?

Hi again guys,

I contacted the guy from the romantic guitar site, and he hasn't replied :-(, anyone here with some fresh eyes that can help me with my question?

Did you find any serial number Matt?

no i havent yet, i was going to have a look inside as you sugested, i was going to with till i went to work, we have a little camera i can look inside with, will be cool to see construction style too. will keep posted

Matt,

Remember not to work on it if it's a collectible item, it would significantly decrease it's value! Collectors love them as is!

Actually, Serge, in most cases that I'm aware of, if a musical instrument is carefully restored such that it is in playable condition once again, this will enhance its value.

The guitar in the photos appears structurally sound, so it might not need much in the way at all regarding restoration. I agree about things such as finish and patina, though -- best to resist temptation and leave those aspects alone.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Michael, you got a good point, i was probably assuming that Matt was inexperienced in lutherie or restoring stringed instruments in which case wisdom would call for reserve IMVHO.