Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=Mike Collins]
As some of you have posted ;when you think your guitars are good enough to sell you will do so!
Well you'll never know if you do not offer the guitars to good players!-Offen beginning players need a good instrument to enspire them to their full potential as a player!
Work with them!
I've gotten some money down and then so much a month (that is good form both of us)
Just think if the wood salesman let us take the wood and pay as we are able later!!
NO GUITARISTS have let me down!!
Some times they gave me extra cash !
Get your guitars in the hands of players !
They need them more than you!
Mike Collins

www.collinsguitars.com[/QUOTE]

This is good advise Mike I think at some point in each one of our journey in this craft we reach a point where we know that the joinery is sound and are confident in intonation and may even be happy with the sound a playability. but until you put your instruments in the hands of accomplished players. I have had my best critiques from seasoned professional players. I don't mean glowing critiques. I mean down to the dirt truthful analysis of what they liked and what they disliked. If you are serious about selling your work find a local music equipment store in your area that the local pros patronise. Get to know the staff and the top pros shoping there. Let them play you instruments. listen to their coments with open ears.

I played the local club scene for many years as a young man. I thought I knew what I liked in the response and playability of an instrument, and when I first started building, that was the sound and feel I built to. But after five years of building for sell and showing my wears to the pros in my area I have refined the sound I build to greatly. Learned a lot about setting up a guitar for various styled and tons about what was wrong and what was right with my guitars.

[Quote=pharmboycu]Don't EVER let anyone say an ovation can't play bluegrass. Folks, the man himself told me he recorded "Manzanita" with the plastic backed Ovation. :-)[/QUOTE]

Heheh, never said it couldn't be done, but unless your first name's Tony, and your last name starts with R, people will laugh at you. Well maybe not at you, but at your guitar!   

-MarkMark Tripp38973.7576157407

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
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[QUOTE=Hesh1956] In my view it’s entirely possible to become a very good guitar maker without having built a large number of guitars. Experience is important, no argument here, but dedication, devotion, raw talent all can tip the balance favorably or not. If I had to pick though there is no substitute for experience I am simply saying that I have seen some builders of only a few guitars turning out excellent results.


[/QUOTE]

Hesh, I totally agree with you, and I hope my comments weren't offending anyone. The opinions I have with regards to this subject are only pertaining to me, especially with the added ambition to make guitars totally by hand, creating a relatively flawless product that could last the test of time.

Error margins have to be wide here, and it could be ten guitars wide!!!

What do I do with things I've built?

I used to draw on these because I finished them with chalkboard paint.

http://www.languagepool/webs/chalkboard/images/image0.jpg

Every Sunday night I've been rocking with this. Of course, the buffed out
version.

http://www.languagepool.net/images/guitarSlantRight.jpg

And soon (very soon), I'll have a pic of my paisely amp for everyone. James Orr38973.7909837963

Michael brings up an interesting thought. At some point I would like to get some honest criticism of one of my guitars. At present, there are some pretty obvious flaws in my guitars so I don't think I would want to waste anyone's time on them. Hopefully in the not too distant future, maybe I will have one that I would like to have a professional player look at. I can see that would be important in getting to the next level.

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First was for me

Second was a commision based on the first. I told my friend why I shouldn't build him a guitar, and if I were, I would want to only charge him for cost, He said no, he would pay me for my labour and he paid me well in my opinion. Upon delivery, I showed him all of the blemishes and told him that I wanted to refinish it when I got better at it. He was sooooo excited about the guitar, he even gave me a tip and paid for dinner, and drove up from Longview Wa to Abbotsford BC (5 hr drive) to come and get it.

3rd a build for a friend who paid me cost

4th a build for a friend who paid me cost and is going to build me a website one day

5th commission based on the 4th, full price plus extras for inlay and cutaway.

6th will be for me as the first I messed up the top and just want a fresh start.

I agree with much of what has been said already, you have to be very confident in what you've built to sell it and also confident that you can fix it if it breaks from your own errors.

Building for cost is a great way to hone your skills and not really cost you anything other than power in the shop, oh and the new table saw and the new sander and the new spray gun.........

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=Mike Collins] WOW !
The replies to this question are incredible!!!!
I sold my first guitars for $450-to $900 -which I though was incredible!!I made $150 a week in 1977!
Guitarmaking was and still is a love (Addiction)of what I was doing!!
I actually gave 2 away to needy players that to this day (30 years later) still thank me for!
As some of you have posted ;when you think your guitars are good enough to sell you will do so!
Well you'll never know if you do not offer the guitars to good players!-Offen beginning players need a good instrument to enspire them to their full potential as a player!
Work with them!
I've gotten some money down and then so much a month (that was good for both of us)
Just think if the wood salesman let us take the wood and pay as we are able later!!
NO GUITARISTS have let me down!!
Some times they gave me extra cash !
Get your guitars in the hands of players !
They need them more than you!
Mike Collins

www.collinsguitars.com[/QUOTE]

Oh i'll remember that one too Mike, thanks!

I've made a couple of rules to myself regarding my guitars that so far I've stuck with.

The first rule: keep the first guitar of any particular style or design (eg, 1st classical, 1st steel string, 1st experimental design)

The second rule: don't even think about selling a guitar if it doesn't meet my standards regarding fit and finish, intonation, playability, sound quality, etc.

I built eight guitars before I took my first commission, and this was at the insistance (and with the assistance) of the player who wanted me to build the guitar.

Honestly, I feel I could have done a better job on guitar number 9, but the customer is happy with it, plus his word-of-mouth praise and encouragement has led to more commissions (I'm working on guitars 16 through 20, with two more on order), so it has been a beneficial arrangement for both of us.

Whenever I feel like I'm getting a swelled head, however, I go visit Bill Cumpiano's site and read his essay, entitled A Pedagog's Lament. I consider it to be required reading for folks like me who are still very much learning the craft.

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38973.9276157407

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Live to Play, Play to Live

I don't accept commissions for instruments. If someone offers me money for one that I've already built, I consider it. If the person understands my current skill level and what they are getting, I'll sell it to them. The main issue, as far as I'm concerned, is that the transaction be an honest one. I don't represent myself as something that I am not and I don't want anyone to feel that I've cheated them in any way.
Mike Mahar38974.4194212963

Michael:

I read Bill's essay several months ago before I started my first. I agree with you, and re-read it on a regular basis...

-Mark

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
OR
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Good point there Mike, i recently turned down 2 commissions because of the age of the players that would have received my guitars as gifts, i thought it would be in the best interest of the parents to let their children grow a bit more before buying a custom made instrument and encouraged them to buy a cheapo small guitar at Wal Mart instead!

Michael I have this section of the lament posted on the door to my shop

"A master is someone who has made more mistakes than you, has made mistakes you haven’t made yet, and has learned how to embrace them--thus learning to see them coming before they happen. So you go towards mastery one mistake at a time. How many mistakes can you stand? As many as it takes to be a master. The master has persevered past the errors until he's made all of them."

I'm saving this Michael!

That is an excellent essay!

What a good thread. Here is my story.

Gave one to the next door neighbor who wanted to learn to plan.

Sold my first to a friend for $200, for his 14 year old son.

Sold one to a good friend for $500

Another to a business associate for $800

Another to a business associate for $1,000

Another to a brother - for free of course

Another to a young 15 year old girl who is becomming an unbelievable player and has no money or family. That one was a gift and one of my proudest builds, and most personal rewarding moments since I started building around 6 years ago.

Then I have around 10 hanging on my wall of fame (or shame depending on the build).

Just finished a nice Maple dread I plan on gifting to some high school student - inspired by Hesh's generous example at Bob C's get together this summer.

Think I am at a point where the quality and sound should start bringing at least enough to cover cost of materials and $2.00/hour for the labor of love. We'll see.

Good to hear from you again Rich! Congrats for the maple Dread, don't forget to post pics, when you give it away to that lucky person, make sure you share those moments with us!

YF Serge

I've stomped on a few, kept a few, and sold a few.

Al

Just a note on getting advice about your guitars, you may want to try it too...

A few years ago, I brought my first guitar, an archtop, to a local guitar expo where people were buying, selling & trading guitars (is this a Texas thing, or are they common elsewhere?). I took it out of the case and carried it around with me, hoping to get some honest feedback - I didn't tell anyone that was MY name on the headstock. It was a really good experience and I gained a lot of valuable insight (and a lot of positive feedback!!??). I also got to hear it played by some outstanding jazz guitarists who could make it sound MUCH better than I could.


Troy