Official Luthiers Forum!

I have installed abalam before but never installed abalone. Is it more difficult or as forgiving to do abalone then abalam?

Mark

Hi Mark. I've found that abalam is a little bit more "stable" and cuts
easier, while abalone is more brittle. It's still not a huge difference
though.

Mike

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

hi Mike,
do the joints hide equally as well?

Do you mean the joints between two separate pieces of abalone, like
when doing purfling strips?

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Yes, the experince with the abalam, the joints don't show just breaking them in place. I read somewhere, don't recall where or how acurate it was, but with real shell, you have to file or sand the end to ends. I don't know, I've never used abalone.

It sort of depends on the coloring of the shell. If it's dark with lots of lines in it the it doesn't show, just like abalam. Abalam is actually real shell also, just laminated together.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

The other nice thing about abalam is that the nice color is not just on the surface. When you sand real shell it changes its look. You have to be a lot more careful about how deep you inlay it.

You still have to be careful with Abalam (the color doesn't go all the way through... but it is more forgiving.Brock Poling38980.0094212963

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I will have to respectfully disagree a tad with Brock. Ablam is made up of .002 strips of shell laminated to gather. While he is right The Duke does a good job of color matching between the layers it is impossible to not have changes in both color and pattern. my personal opinion is that real shell gives more sanding room. but it to changes. On flat surfaces Ablam is is a very good product, except that it is possible to sand to a point that the top visible layer is so thin it is transparent and the layer below it is visible thought it this can be a very weird appearance. I like real shell because you never get this affect. Also Ablam on curved surfaces really sands to strange figuring because you have many layers exposed as you make the radius.

Now as far as real shell being harder to joint it is the pattern of most abalone lends it self real well to hiding joints to the eye because of the same reason ablam does. The camafluge effect. As long as you pay attention to relative good color matching both do equal jobs.

As far as ease in breaking the joints abalone is more brittle because it is natural calcium silica as ablam has the epoxy binder making it less brittle. There are advantages to both. Abalone can easley be sized with nippers and a file. I use nippers and a sanding disk to make my joints. I nip the piece to length and sand a slight angle in the the ends (/ /)so that it fits with the one I last inlaid. this is more time consuming than breaking ablam but I think makes a better fitted piece.

If I was doing a D45 purfling I might use ablam for time savings breakinin in to the channel. But I really prefer natural shell for apperance. If I am inlaying a fretboard I would never use ablam because of multi layers expose due to radial sanding. But this is just my preferance It is a great product. Just not my choice.MichaelP38980.0412731481

I agree with Michael about sanding through the layers of abalam. I just
learned that the hard way when I made abalam "bars" for fret markers. I
made the mistake of inlaying them before radiusing the fb (they go along
the side), and a few looked really bad after I radiused. Had to redo those
ones.    Turned out pretty good though.

Mike

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

IIRC Mark is using it for purfling.... I do agree with you about curved surfaces... shell is the way to go.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Mark,

A few more points regarding the differences.

Abalam is much more brittle if trying to cut small pieces/ pointed pieces. It always seems to crumble when doing points.
All shell looks better under a finish, but it seems it really helps the abalam.

Abalam cuts much easier and faster than abalone. The thin layers and epoxy gives it a softer feel with the saw, so you need to change your cutting style when changing mediums.

Be careful if you're breaking abalam strips into the purfling route; sometimes the veneer layers will separate, leaving a small section below the surface.


Paul

_________________
Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
IIRC Mark is using it for purfling.... I do agree with you about curved
surfaces... shell is the way to go.[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, you are correct Brock. I digressed a wee bit. He might really put
a roundover on his edges though!

Mike

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Ablam is a great product for flat inlay such as purfling, but has some draw backs. Natural shell is also great and has its own draw backs. Each has a place in luthierie. I do not knock ablam at all. I my self have chose to use natural shell for most all my work. basicly for three main reasons. First I think it looks better, more natural and organic, second I think it works better when all process are considered. Third if you have a good supplier it is per-inch less expensive in most cases. In some cases it is more work than ablam but I never choose a product simple because it is easier. It also must have other redeeming attributes.

[QUOTE=MichaelP] my personal opinion is that real shell gives more sanding room. On flat surfaces Ablam is is a very good product, except that it is possible to sand to a point that the top visible layer is so thin it is transparent and the layer below it is visible thought it this can be a very weird appearance. [/QUOTE]

One way to avoid sanding through ablam is to route slightly deeper then the thickness of the ablam. Then after you glue the ablam in it will be sitting slightly lower then the surrounding surface. You fill this in with a clear epoxy and sand down to flush. This will give you sanding room and after the finish is on you can't tell that the ablam is sitting low to the surface.

I've never tried this on a fretboard though so I'm not sure how the epoxy would hold up to long term use.

No the epoxy is not likely to wear well on a fretboard. Even using epoxy as a sealer for a slightly deep set purfling IMO is a bad idea, as some epoxies yellow with age. I had just as soon lay ablam flush and take my chance. Anyway I decided long ago to use natural shell. MichaelP38980.6011805556

Thought:

Has anyone tried heating Abalam to "bend" it around a curve so it can be used for side purflings? I realize that abalone itself doesn't bend, but perhaps the thin layers combined with softened epoxy can flex a little...?

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

HUM??? That may work on a large radius. For a retired guy you sure ponder a lot

I like working with Abalam (other creative projects). Abalone is a real pain in the derriere to saw.Sam Price38980.6030555556

I used Ablam once for a rosette, never again. Maybe it was poor quality, maybe I did something wrong or sanded too much but it seemed duller and was no easier to use. I find the shel breaks nicely and the breaks don't show.

[QUOTE=arvey] I used Ablam once for a rosette, never again. Maybe it was poor quality, maybe I did something wrong or sanded too much but it seemed duller and was no easier to use. I find the shel breaks nicely and the breaks don't show.[/QUOTE]

Duller has to do with what sanding grit you stop at. The epoxy seams to tand sanding scratches deeper so I always had to sand to 400p or finer to mak it look good.
If you used actual ablam I doubt it was poor quaility issue as the Duke of Pearl would not put out poor quaility stuff. There are some cheap laminates on the market but they can't advertise as Ablam.

Could have been a cheap laminate, I got it as a sample with some other stuff from a supplier. He called it Ablam but that doesn't mean much.

[QUOTE=MichaelP] HUM??? For a retired guy you sure ponder a lot [/QUOTE]

Well, I'm retired! I don't have much else to do!
Except buy & slice up wood...and build vac presses, and take pictures of wood, and update a website constantly, and....

Don Williams38980.7573842593

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."