Official Luthiers Forum!

Doug;
Did you fit the binding dry?
Or did you just try to glue it on without a dry run?

For 30 years I fit and refit- and fix all the gaps -then glue -up!
Wood is not as easy as plastic!
those guys have it easy!
Rout off you binding then start over and do it dry (NO GLUE)check for all gaps NO MATTER HOW SMALL and fix them!
then mark where all the parts line up!
EX. draw a pencil line(or a colored marker) across your binding and purfling at the waist -the end butt -and the upper bout.
Carefully disassemble the binding & purf -put glue on the guitar binding & purf. shelve and then glue on your binding & purflings (carefully and PAY ATTENTION to what
your doing!
Or after cutting the binding & purf. shelves seal them with shellac and tape your trim on the guitar(fit all the miters ) and soak it with thin super glue and leave it overnight!
Then just scrape and go WHEW !
that was easy!
Binding makes or breaks your guitar-I've seen bad fittings from some very prominate & expensive makers!

best of luck to you .
It really is a hard and trying job !
But do the best you can and take your time!
Mike Collins
collinsguitars.com
Mike Collins38992.700150463

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Mike Collins

I fit it dry and it looked great. I bent it on my Fox Bender which is identical to the sides. The only thing I can think of is that the purfling was not bent is causing some areas to spring back.

To top it off........I just got home from work. I went to my supply cabinet and I have a roll of that Stew Mac tape sitting there. I guess I forgot I purchased a roll.   

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Guitars...One's too many...Twenty is not enough.

Heck of a mousetrap you got there Wayne! Nice job! One thing I might add is that I use the regular masking tape but have been known in a pinch to use the blue painter's tape as well.

I use the green Painters tape they sell at Canadian tire. Works great for me.

Home depot filament tape, and CA. Leave 1/8 to 1/4 inch gaps in the tape, and thats where you drop the CA. Coat the top first with a quick french polish, I use the Lee valley stuff out of a bottle. Works great, and its fast. Use a heat gun to warm the tpae up on the top first, then pull it off, comes off so easy, no fibre pulls. Now go around and CA the remaining areas, then scrape flush. You wil also need to CA the side purf area as well, then scrape it down flush ( I leave my binding about 5 thou proud, bindings about 90, the channel 85). This method allows you to do a whole top or back in the dry, fit everything, then when all is good, drop CA it.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I use the StewMac brown Binding Tape and am extremely pleased with how it holds and most importantly how it removes from the wood without pulling grain. I agree with Mike Collins, if you work it up right and dry place, check, move forward and check again, once you have a good fit all the way around dry it sure fits better wet. The tape you were using might have allowed some spring back or movement since it stretches, or at least it does for me. If using tape to bind it needs to be stable that is why I like the StewMac tape so well.

Fixing the problem of gaps as everyone else here is recommending is all good, I use the LMI FCA glue to fill and then sand in the correct dust color to close.

Good Luck

Mike
White Oak, Texas

In that picture, how many rubberbands are there? I'm getting ready to order from SM and want to know what I'm gonna need.

CRUD!!!!! I hate when I screw up

I bound the other half of the top with the Stew Mac tape I found today in my shop. It worked like a charm. I don't think I will have any gaps this time. You can really pull on this stuff and it holds really well. I guess I forgot what kind of tape I used on my first guitar....oh well, that was 2 years ago. For some reason, I believe I used the blue stuff.

I verified the gap. It is actually huge at 3 1/2 inches long and about .020" wide. I hate to do it, but I am going to fill it. I am packing with Titebond and sanding. This usually works well for me.

I am amazed at the stuff I buy and forget I bought it. Just this past weekend, I was going to install some UHMW on my Williams binding jig. I almost bought it again, but stumbled across it when I was digging for something.

Thanks everyone. You were all a great help.

I must remember to make a diary on my next guitar to write the techniques that work and don't work, where I screw up, and in this case, what materials I use

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Guitars...One's too many...Twenty is not enough.

Tony,
Do you use thin CA to wick in?
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

[QUOTE=LanceK] Doug, THIS is what I use.
IT works great for holding the bindings down while wicking in CA. [/QUOTE]

Yeah... that is the magic stuff for using CA... very little mess.

I actually use a combination of this and the brown tape. First I fit everything up dry and get it PERFECT and taped in place with the brown tape leaving a few inches between pieces. Then I come back and LIGHTLY wich in a little CA between the brown pieces. Then I remove the brown pieces one at a time and wick in a little more. If I get any gaps as I untape it I apply the clear 3M tape -- CA won't stick to it, and it doesn't come unstuck when the CA hits it.

If you are patient this method works great.

Don't flood the channel though... you will be sorry if you go crazy with the glue. A little is all you need. It wicks nicely.

Brock Poling38993.069837963

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Sam Price] [quote]One suggestion...you'll want to have all your strips ready before you begin gluing. It's pretty tough stuff, and can be frustrating to cut off the roll if you're in a hurry.[/quote]


/\ Amen to that. PLease don't ask me how I know!![/QUOTE]

Get a tape dispenser... it will save you a lot of frustration. I bought 3 and they are great.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I use the LMI tape and titebond or HHG for my bindings, and have never had any problems (attributable to the tape!). Whenever I put in an order to LMI for truss rods, fingerboard blanks etc, I always as a matter of course add a roll of tape.

As has been said a shellac seal stops any tearout as does removing the tape at an angle to the grain.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

J .. yes the thin stuff.. with the binding on tight, you need thin to wick in, nothing else will do that .. I use Instant Cure, blue label, available near me in 8 oz bottles. It gets lots of use, I go thru three or four a year.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Where do you buy it Tony?

[QUOTE=ToddStock] Ronn:

That's 8 out of the 20 that come in a $10 bag. I can do an OO and a dread at the same time, and have one or two extra, so one bag is plenty.

Todd[/QUOTE]


Many thanx I was about to buy two... You saved me 12 bucks. Come by the shop I'll buy lunch.

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=Sam Price] [quote]One suggestion...you'll want to have all your strips ready before you begin gluing. It's pretty tough stuff, and can be frustrating to cut off the roll if you're in a hurry.[/quote]


/\ Amen to that. PLease don't ask me how I know!![/QUOTE]

Get a tape dispenser... it will save you a lot of frustration. I bought 3 and they are great.[/QUOTE]
Brock, even with a dispenser, filament tape is difficult to tear off one-handed (the other one is holding the binding in place); that is, unless there's a better type of dispenser available. No problems for you with filament tape?

[QUOTE=dubell] I must remember to make a diary on my next guitar to write the techniques that work and don't work, where I screw up, and in this case, what materials I use [/QUOTE]


Now you can't say I have never told you this before

A build journal is probably the most important tool, and with time will become the most efficient tool in your shop

Totally agree Michael and thanks to you I've started a pictorial journal or written descriptions of things like binding procedure.

Correction to an earlier post - it's filament tape that I use not packing tape -- though some refer to them synonymously.

Serge the "Hot Stuff" that Lee Valley sells works just fine.

For small gaps you can clamp your heat blanket so it is just touching the area that has the gap and then heat it up. Once the area is hot turn, off the blanket and tighten up the clamp some more. Since you're going to fill it I would try this first as it may lessen the gap. Use an Irwin quick-grip clamp for this as they are not that strong and are padded so they won't damage the binding.

Thanks Anthony!

[QUOTE=CarltonM]Brock, even with a dispenser, filament tape is difficult to tear off one-handed (the other one is holding the binding in place); that is, unless there's a better type of dispenser available. No problems for you with filament tape? [/QUOTE]

I stopped using filament tape for bidnings. Between the brown tape and the magic 3M stuff that Lance mentioned above that is all I need.

However, I use filament tape for other stuff occassionally and I have no problem using my dispensers with one hand. I got mine brand new on ebay with a frightingly sharp blade.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Well, because the results of the second binding job have absolutely no gaps and look great, I am routing what I have done and starting over. I ordered the 2 binding and purfling sets from LMI along with………a new roll of binding tape! A $20 mistake.

Thanks guys

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Guitars...One's too many...Twenty is not enough.