Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm going to do my first water based gloss finish soon. I've done a few satin. I have never poor filled. I plan to use Zpoxy.

Do I shellac before or after I pore fill?

I like the warm amber tone it gives with the near perfectly clear water based finish.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Steve

Must be Before, Shellac sticks to epoxy, but not the other way round.RussellR39001.4502662037

Steve, I've had the best luck spraying KTM9 right over the Zpoxy if that's what your using and I would bet that other waterborne finish's would be compatible. I fill as usual and after sanding and making as sure as possible that everything is filled, rag on a diluted (about 50/50) solution of Zpoxy and denatured alcohol. Or to be safer, everclear. After this is wiped on sand very little with maybe 600 grit but do sand and then spray your finish.
When filling your pores, you will probably have to fill a few times and sand to get all the pore's but believe me it is well worth the time to do it several times and you probably will still have some stuborn holes that can be filled with thick CA during finishing but fill them after you spray a coat but before you sand for the next one. Good luck

_________________
Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Yes fill with Zpoxy first sand lightly with 320-400p then seal with shellac. Like Russel said shellac will bond to epoxy but epoxy will not bond well over shellac.

Thanks guys. I would have done the shellac first because I am concerned about even color.
I guess the color will be even because the epoxy only fills the pores.
Does the Zpoxy add a bit on amber?

John,
That is interesting. You use the thinned Zpoxy instead of shellac.

I tried KTM9 and wasn't very happy with it. This time I am using Crystalac.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

What I do is fill complete (typ 2 applications)

sand back just to wood.

Make a 40% alcohol 60% Zpoxy mixture and rag-on to even the color every where.

sand very lightly with 400p not exposing wood anywhere.

Then seal with shellac

Same here. Level sand and then apply thinned epoxie with denatured alcohol to make sure there is complete coverage on the entire surface.
Carefull Steve, if you miss a spot and it does not get epoxie over it, it will be visible under the finish!
I don't use shellac either, just epoxie and the finish.

Good luck.

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

When you sand back, do you use your RO sander or do it by hand?

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

You can use an RO for leveling the Zpoxy but if you wipe on the final thin coat just sand lightly with a block by hand. I use about 600 for this final sanding as I don't want to snd thru or leave any scratches.

_________________
Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Back and Sides, I use Zpoxy, do the MichaelP thinned final coat, lightly sand and finish.

I don't use Zpoxy on Tops at all, I just seal with a 2lb cut of Shellac and move to finish.

Mike

Thanks guys! Any other tips are welcome.
I'll be doing 2 guitars at once - an All koa and a sitka/IE rosewood.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Do those of you who use Nitro and Z-Poxy use any kind of sealer? Or do you just apply the Z-Poxy the same way and shoot nitro directly over it?

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

I use system 3,, and I thicken with silica. It seems nobody does this.. I thought it filled the pores better and since it didn't run it was easier for me to use. Is there any reason why this is not good?
Mike

Mike, I use System Three as well. No silica though. I've had great results with it.

_________________
I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

[QUOTE=mikev] I use system 3,, and I thicken with silica. It seems nobody does this.. I thought it filled the pores better and since it didn't run it was easier for me to use. Is there any reason why this is not good?
Mike[/QUOTE]
Silica is a whitish solid. It could look cloudy under finish. This hasn't been a problem for you?

Silica, like pumice will go clear when wetted with epoxy. The only problem I have with Silica is it thickens the epoxy. If you have a med size pores it will a bit more work to get it into the pores with out bridging the pores, but not a big issue.MichaelP39002.7503703704