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I've been chatting with Brock the last few days about rim/side stiffness and the pros and cons of it.

Seems that laminating sides is - one - way of achieving super stiff sides without adding unneeded weight.
Maybe not the single best way, so I got to thinking.

I can see the "pros" to this, but what I really want to know is how big of a difference there is in stiffness between double laminated sides and the sides lined with the Charles Fox type liners.
The CFox liners are about 1" tall, leaving about 2" between the top and the bottom liners open if you have a 4" wide rim.
I know from experience that simply using the reverse liners add stiffness over the traditional triangular type.
So it stands to reason that the CFox type will stiffen the rims to a greater extent.

Has anyone done both types? CFox and Laminated sides?
Personally, If I knew that the CFox liners were say, 80% as stiff as the laminated sides, I would be likely not try the laminations. BUT if they were 50% stiffer, I might.

Thoughts?

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

given that some of the top classical builders use laminated sides on their premium instruments there must be a reason they elect to do so. but as i have felt the need i have never tried it either.

there is also a marketing question to consider, i.e., the widespread perception that laminated components are inherantly inferior to solid wood and only used only on inferior instruments.

Lance, Tim has a thread going on the 13th fret on this subject. Head on over!

Thanks Mario, that is actualy what drove this question, I have been reading Tims thread at the 13th Fret, APM, and the Acoustic Guitar Forum

That said, the question of how much differance there is between laminated sides and the CFox style liners has yet to be addressed.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

... I am telling you man.... ... do both.   

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Lance,
I know that Michael Bashkin of Bashkin Guitars laminates 2 thin pieces of the same wood together using epoxy. He showed us how he does it when I was at his shop. Just slap them on an inside mold with epoxy between them after they are bent, and he used a soft type of styrofoam to eliminate any gaps in the outside mold when pressed down. When they come out, they are so stiff you don't need the outside mold any more. He only uses the outside mold to glue in the blocks.

His guitars have to be the best sounding guitars I have ever played. Very light touch produces an explosion of sound. I really think it has a lot to do with the stiff sides. Good luck and let me know how it turns out.
TracyLuthierSupplier39025.6243981481

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Lance, I have done both and there is no comparrison. Double sides are waaaay stiffer. Can't give you an actual percentage but the DS's are a blissful joy to work with. Even though the Fox style linings are stiffer than std reverse linings I still managed to crack them during power dish sanding the rim radius (inside of an outer form). I don't even need an outer form when dish sanding rim sets now ;) DS are a lot more work and take more tooling but they are worth it IMHO.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Howard Klepper is one member here who laminates his sides, have a look at his luscious website, I often do and come away feeling inadequate.

In my opinion the function of the side is to hold the top and back apart and create the acoustic chamber, it has no acoustic function of itself.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Lance why not perform the test yourself and get the exact answer. I haven't
done the test, sorry.

1.Cut 3 strips of side material and glue two together.
2.on the other one put reverse kerf liners top and bottom,
3.Test for deflection.

Can I ask what your goal is for stiffening the sides?

I know a lot of players hate heavy guitars.