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You NewEnglanders are are very fond of the "Tuck Rule" Eh

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Forget the tuck rule or the no-tuck rule. I don't believe you need an X-brace at all. That's way too much structure for a guitar top.
Try this:
NO bracing below the upper bout, except the bridge patch.
You'll get an explosion of sound like nothing you've ever heard or seen.

[/QUOTE]

Nah ... you don't need any bracing at all. Just a gelignite patch for a bridge-plate. Now there's an explosion of sound - otherwise known as a "nitro finish" Dave White39028.390775463

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

[QUOTE=LanceK] You NewEnglanders are are very fond of the "Tuck Rule" Eh [/QUOTE]

Well, I'm glad SOMEBODY picked up on that....


Hidden humor is only good if someone catches it.

Tub O' Lard goes to Lance !

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Forget the tuck rule or the no-tuck rule. I don't believe you need an X-brace at all. That's way too much structure for a guitar top.
Try this:
NO bracing below the upper bout, except the bridge patch.
You'll get an explosion of sound like nothing you've ever heard or seen.

[/QUOTE]

Well John How's little 'Stella' type guitars show that an X brace is only one of the options that works. The main problem is that we have all become brain-washed by the 'must have an X' syndrome. I've got a little London Plane to build next and that is definitely not going to have an X (if I can get John, who's a very wise man, to let me have his pattern.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Tuck it all!

Well, before things got facetious, I was going to say....

There are differences on opinion as to whether the lower legs of the X brace need to have some height or not. Some people like to feather them out, and feel it does no structural harm. Others think they need to be left with a little height. The need to tuck them under the liners or not is simply a function of the height of the braces: if they're taller than thickness of the top at the end then they probalby should be inletted to keep them from peeling up.

The difference between a soprano and a seamstress is that the seamstress says: "Tuck the frills"

[QUOTE=Alan Carruth]

The difference between a soprano and a seamstress is that the seamstress says: "Tuck the frills"
[/QUOTE]

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

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Hmm,
I think I'll try this one again--

[QUOTE=Mike Collins] I tuck because I've fixed to many loose braces on tops that had untucked braces![/QUOTE]
Do tucked braces ever come loose?

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

[QUOTE=SteveS] Hmm,
I think I'll try this one again--
Do tucked braces ever come loose? [/QUOTE]

I would imagine if they weren't glued properly, and/or old glue were used, then yes tucked braces could come loose.JBreault39028.6214930556

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

TUCK the frills (Carruth)
Just TUCK it (Nike)
There once was a man from NanTUCKet
The TUCKing thing wont fit .. gimme that TUCKing hammer
University of TUKtoyuckTUK - TUK U.
Mother TUCKer's - thats a local restaurant chain !!!
If I knew how to TUCK, I woudlnt be here, now would I ??
TUCKing .. we dont need no stinking TUCKing.
NO TUCKING ALLOWED - sign at local ski hill

Feel free to jump on this bandwagon .. sure is FUN.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Yes -tucked braces can come loose if improperly done.
That is -the brace should fit into the lining with no gap between the two.
I've seen old factory guitars with hugh gaps in that area and the brace not only came unglued but split because part of it was still in the lining and when the brace unglued there and wanted to swing loose -all of a sudden it catches in the lining because of the big gap but the inertia kept going and the brace split!
I only tuck the X and the braces above the s.h.
I tuck and support the same braces(except the X) on all my classicas and "Flamencos"
Those players "Golpe" the top so hard that a top can split!
Tucking is very important with Cedar!
it has a tendancy to let go of glue joints much easier than spruce!
Mike

www.collinsguitars.com

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Mike Collins

When you folks talk about tucking a brace under the lining. Are you meaning create a small mortis in the kerfing for the brace to fit under?nathan c39028.6519444444

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nay

My blogs
Hand Made Gutar
Woodworker++

Nathan, that is correct. A small notch excavated in the kerfing to make space for the brace.

The brace at that point should be very thin (1mm) and it's important for the notch to be no bigger than the brace. i.e. as tight a fit as you can get...

Hope this helps.

Hesh, those braces look very good my friend...

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Yes Nay!
mc

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Mike Collins

Thank you for that answer Michael!

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Alain wrote:
"The brace at that point should be very thin (1mm) and it's important for the notch to be no bigger than the brace. i.e. as tight a fit as you can get... "

I disagree with the first part of that. The brace can be any height you want at the end, but if it's taller than about 1/3 the thickness of the top at that point I'd inlet it. If the brace is very tall, and some classical makers have the ends of the waist brace as much as 3/8" high, you might need an added bracket under the liner there for extra support.

It seems to me that Gibson used to take the braces down to a mm or so where they went under the liners, and, rather than cutting an inlet, they'd just mash the liners down. Sometimes the liner crushed where the brace when under it, which was the desired result. Sometimes the brace end crushed, which amounts to breaking it off right at the edge of the liner, and those peel up with regularity. I've had people bring in old Gibby's with the shoulder brace entirely gone, wondering why the action was rising so fast. When asked they'd sometimes acknowlege that there had been a stick of some sort ratrtling around inside, but they tossed it out.

I'd call what gibson did 'tucking the braces under the liners'. The _correct_ proceedure is to 'inlet' them.

:)