Official Luthiers Forum!

Earlier in the week I posted a thread asking for all of you to show me your
bridge designs. THANK YOU!!!

Today I was in the shop and created a prototype bridge design. What do
you think?   I want BRUTAL HONESTY. Don't just be nice.   If you like
it....great...If you don't tell me why. I know Scott won't like it because it
had some sharp points.

I based the design on some curves and points I already have at the end of
my headstock and fretboard at the sound hole.

Also, what string spacing do most of you use???   2.125   2.25???

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Andy, that looks great. I love it.

Kind of reminds me of a cadillac symbol, or the emblem of the new Disney Cars movie. It's now where close enought for you to worry about, that's just what it reminded me of.

I lik the lines on it. Very cool

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The only problem I can see with it is you will concentrate the upward pull to a single point behind the bridge. A straight bridge will spread the forces out along its length.

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--Reynolds Large

Andy, I'm still thinking about it, but the first thing that came to mind; is it long enough for the X braces to pass under the wings? It looks short to me.
I think this is a very important consideration.
Jim

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

It flows nicely with your headstock. Is it long enough? To answer your question on string spacing,IMHO, I like 2.25, especially for fingerstlye. Clinton

I like it.... just double check to make sure its long enough and you're good to go!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

My length was 6 inches....is that long enough???
The bridge that is.....

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Plenty long enough.
Even if you made it longer, keep the same design eliments.
It echos all your other parts of the guitar so well!

Nice one!

Wade

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Andy, can we see it on the guitar? Id like to see the whole package...

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I like it. At first I thought it looked like the batman throwing star, but I was completely wrong.    I'm not sure I like the half rounds on the sides.   But I agree there needs to be something there not just squared off. I really like the way you tapered the height. Good job nathan c39030.879849537

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nay

My blogs
Hand Made Gutar
Woodworker++

Hey Andy...
I like it...Really
I'm looking for a new bridge.
SEND ME ONE!!
Just one!! I'm looking for a bridge for a string spread of 2.25".
Thanks,
walter

Andy,
I am the odd man out here. I don't particularly care for the shape of the
fretboard termination or the bridge - I think I don't like it because it is
"pointy". But I have very specific taste and generally very strong ideas of
what I think looks good and what doesn't.

That said, I think your design goes very well together and looks very
professional - just not my cup of tea. From the reaction, it seems like
most people really like it.

In short, I think you have done your job well. You have created a unique
look that has coherence within your design. I also think it is a positive
thing to have some people really like and others dislike your design.

I hate to ever say anything negative - but it seems like your are trying to
get a widespread reaction.

Peace Out,
Simon

Thanks for the input. Both positive and negative.
I have found over the past year or so that this is the friendliest group in the
world, so giving and getting negative feedback is difficult. I am certainly not
insulted by negative critiques. Criticism is the only way to improve.

Lance, since I just made it today, it will be a bit before I can put it on a guitar
to show you the complete picture. The one that is being lacquered now has
been masked off with my old bridge design. The current construction...
(Camatilllo rosewood/Lutz OM) will have my new design....whatever it is.   
When the body is done, I will tape it on and post another pict.

Thanks again

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

As far as putting it on the body, just some double sided tape in close proximity would even be great Andy.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=azimmer1] My length was 6 inches....is that long enough???
The bridge that is.....[/QUOTE]

Mine is 6 1/2 when I start, but down to about 6 3/8 when I finish.     The ends of your bridge look like mine, so I really like it.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Andy, I am with Simon. Not really my taste straight out. I like the softer curves rather than the points . That being said, I think that it all goes very well together and with the logo, you can not go wrong. Very go continuity(sp?). Thanks for sharing it with us and asking for our thoughts. Kind of makes me feel important.

The last bridge I made was out of oak for a plywood kay.

something says fingerstyle about it to me.

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Down here in southwest New Mexico, we had a big snow storm. Well, the men were saying it was 6 1/2", but the women were saying it was 4...

6 will do most always. Andy, I think most bridges can be shaped to work, including yours, as long as they flow into the soundboard, and are not too big.

Mike Doolan had a guitar I played with awhile at the 2001 GAL convention. It had bridge wings with curved ends, similar to yours.

As I described in another post, I believe that each note generates resonance with a fairly discrete ring on the top, whose diameter varies inversely with the driving frequency. Same for a speaker cone. Low frequencies need large diameters to generate the waveform, thus big subwoofers.

The same is true for the high notes, which are generated in increasingly (as the pitch increases) smaller rings, whose center is the cross point of the X brace. The bridge obviously lies close to the center of the treble generating area.

On the Doolin guitar, as I climbed up the high E string,
the volume suddenly dropped noticeably at the 5th or 6th fret, and at I could feel no vibration over the ends of the bridge. Lower notes produced vigorous vibration outside of each wing, because the rings were larger in diameter, and were not impacted by the abrupt ends of the wings.

The normal about 1/8" drop off from the surface of the bridge wings to the soundboard causes the energy of the several notes whose rings pass through/over the ends to be absorbed into the physical corners and ridges on the ends. I have observed this effect on virtually every guitar I have re-voiced since I noticed it in 1997.

The curved ends actually might mitigate this effect slightly, by spreading out the vibrational interference, but not much. I have found that this problem can usually be eliminated, or greatly minimized by simply flowing and gradually tapering the wing down to about .020-.025" above the soundboard at the end.

Rounding the entire lower surface along the wings and belly, and flowing them in to one another, to this same dimension also helps the flow of energy into the soundboard.

On this bridge, Andy, this would mean flowing the cross section contour of the main body slowly down from the saddle to the bottom edge of the belly, removing those so carefully crafted curved ridges, and flowing the main body into the wings, with no ridge at their junction, either. This would mean that the peg holes would need slight refitting and new countersink work, as their height would be lowered. I refer you to the pictures of the reshaped Guild on my re-voicing page, vanlingeguitars.com.

I know it's hard to believe that these subtle differences in shape can have such a noticeable effect on sound production, but they really do. When properly flowed, the highs come through in new and crisp ways seldom heard.

But what I want you to also hear is that your bridge will work quite well as it is. I just think it would work better and give much more life to the guitar if modified as I described.

And the best part is that you can modify it after your guitar is playable, so that you can analyze it for some of the things I mentioned. Also, if the low E is not as loud as you want, you can increase its volume by flowing the body into the wings, eliminating the ridge between them, which adds local, mass absorbing energy. Of course, you'll have to do the same on the treble side. .

Designwise, it is beautiful, compliments the guitar, and is certainly not too small.

Scott

Andy, put me into the "I like it" camp. Can't wait to see it on a guitar.

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

I'm with Donovan and Simon on this one. Not a fan of the bottom point, but as part of the overall design concept, it works and works very well. You have a nicely thought out scheme that is tastefully understated. About that only thing that I find a bit off is the size of the lettering you have for the initials, and that could be because I can't see the whole fretboard. All in all, I really like your design.

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Aoibeann

Beautiful and well thought out bridge Andy, i love the pointy bottom!

Well, here goes...

Understand that this is a very personal question you're asking based on perception, so you're going to get a number of opinions.

Aesthetically, for me, it doesn't work. Your guitars are so curvacious, and this bridge seems to fight the design of your guitars rather than balancing with it. Like the others, I think the pointy-ness of the bottom detracts from the curves of the instrument. I know it reflects the fretboard end, and the top of the headstock, but for the bridge, it just doesn't work for me.
It has a very Southwestern geometric kind of look to it, whereas your guitars don't reflect that. Even though there are curves in the ends, still the overall impression I get is boxy or bulky, whereas your guitars are sleek and curvacious.

My wife says it's "almost" clumsy and awkward looking. She says it reminds her of someone wearing a shirt inside-out. Whatever she means by that, I'm sure she knows. I haven't a clue.

To me, it's almost like putting The Zootman's face on a beautiful woman's body. Somethings just don't work...and we've seen several examples of that thanks to Hesh. Umm...clarification...the pictures, not Hesh's guitars.

I think as Lance mentions, it would be a lot easier if we could see it placed on a guitar body to see how it works. Sometimes the only way to know for sure is to see it as it would be, and not seperately.

<sigh> Sorry, I didn't want to render this opinion, but when a friend asks for an honest opinion be it positive or negative, I feel obliged to be honest or not answer at all.

Feel free to think I'm totally off-base on this one.
Don Williams39031.5655555556

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Andy, The size is probably fine; I didn't realize that it was that big, it looks smaller to me for some reason.
I really believe the way the bridge overlays the X has a big impact on sound production.
After looking at it for a little while, I think aesthetically that the radii on the end of the bridge don't work so well. Maybe if you were to pull out the lower edge so its a little longer than the top edge or something.
My advice would be to just keep analyzing it over the course of a week or so and try some variations on the theme. Parts of it definately tie in well to the reast of the instrument.
Jim

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Thanks for all of the views!!!!

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com