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Boy did you miss out!

To watch Richard Brune french polish the equivilent of a guitar side from start to finish in 20 minutes flat was nearly unbelievable, and completely enlightening. The man can french polish an entire guitar in one day. Milburn tutorial be damned!

All the people from LINT were very nice and a lot of fun. Brune was more forthcoming than I expected and also a very delightful person. Since I am very traditional in many ways, and hold great admiration for the guitars of the old Spanish masters, I found everything he said to be quite agreeable. I found that his extensive experience doing restorations gave him a unique point of view.

One thing I found particularly persuasive were his comments promoting hide glue. I've also got a feeling I'm about to shave several weeks off the french polishing process.

Sorry you couldn't make it Steve, was looking forward to mett you. Next time though!

best wishes,
Joshua jfrench38459.8290509259

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Joshua,
I'd hoped you would share your thoughts on the meeting. Glad you went...and glad Brune delivered. (What else would one expect?)
Yes, I was disappointed that I couldn't make it. But it just had to be.
Did Richard talk about his pore filling process? That would have interested me.
I caught the FP demonstration / workshop at the GAL convention and the most interesting filling technique used egg white with a little chicory thrown in for color.
Who needs Sherwin Williams? Kroger will do just fine.

Thanks for the update,
Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve,

He was using just a regular putty type filler which he mixed up with a bit of water and piment. Wiped it into the pores, then sanded it with 320 grit.

I've been using egg whites for a while. I mainly use it as a size. He spoke of different techniques for touching up finishes on restorations, how to make the grain lines of the spruce and such more prominent. All very interesting.

His french polishing technique was a slap in the face to everything other makers are saying about the process. I love this kind of defiance. Particularly if its going to shave weeks of work off each guitar...

It really was a great experience.

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Ok Joshua, What is his trick to building the depth of film that quick?

There was no trick. His pad was loaded with a lot of shellac (seedlac) and he completely disregarded drying/curing time between coats. He brought that side from unfilled to spirited off in 20 minutes. Basically he just completely disregarded all the issues we probably think too much about and waste too much time on.

He did as many coats as possible in as little time as possible, so long as it was dry to the touch.

At $15,000 a guitar, and for someone who works on $100,000 Hausers and $180,000 Torres - I'm sold.

He's also buffed the finish in the same day he's applied it, with no difficulty. It is all very different than anything Eugene Clark or the Milburns say... Never touches it with sandpaper either.

Also he suggested Everclear is better than DA, and uses linen for the pad cover.

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Everclear is better, Less toxic anyway. I use DA mainly because I use it for a lot of solvent tasks and it work fine in FP. I rarly use sand paper, with the exception of Micro Mesh for leveling when called for and during polishing.

OK, Joshua, did he use any oil in his application?
Seems to me that the answer is "no", if he goes on to buff the same day.
2nd question--by "buff" do you mean power buffing?

Thanks,
Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve - he uses some olive oil in the process. He doesn't even attempt to remove it with naptha, etc. But he does not use much. And he only buffs it on the wheel if the customer is after the "lacquered" look (blinding gloss), otherwise he just spirits off. He spirited off in the demonstration and the side had a beautiful gloss, but not a blinding gloss.

They'll surely put up pictures on the LINT site eventually. Personally I'm blown away that LINT did this in the first place, since most of the makers involved seem mostly interested in the steel string guitar. He was very well received by all, and surely everybody came away with much new knowledge.

Chris Jenkins and some others decided they were about to save a months worth of lacquering in preparation for Healdsburg after seeing that demonstration.

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Joshua
How many coats did do you estimate he applied in total?

Yeah, those (we) LINT heads are a pretty adaptable bunch. Everyone who has come to lecture at the master class is in the upper tier of luthiery, and I can see the day coming when to be considered among the best, one's resume will need to say "And I lectured at LINT"!

As for saving a month's lacquering--right now--my experience is that the masters make it LOOK easy. Yet there is still a lot of skill to acquire. Those kinds of demonstrations really fire me up (wish I coulda seen it), then I come home and try to duplicate it w/ much head scratching, and not a little frustration.

Let us know how well it works for you.

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

John - someone asked him how many coats, and he had no idea. Then when he demonstrated, he just kept putitng it on and putting it on.... wetter than I am used to for the pad. I couldn't tell how many coats, it was like one long coat and he charged the pad several times.

Steve you're right about that. Luckily I've french polished plenty of guitars now, and after this my view is that I'm paying attention to things that take too much time and are of very little consequence.

The next two guitars I'm going to do his way. And if it works out how I expect it to, my new scedule will have me on vacation 2 weeks out of every month! If nothing else, I expect to cut my polishing time in half, now that I'm less worried about having too quick a build of shellac. I'm getting great results, but working far too slowly. This is mainly out of concern for the hardness of finish, but likely in error.

Best wishes,
Joshua

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Another good tip, which I either haven't seen or had overlooked previously was the use of a baby bottle warmer to prepare hide glue. Less expensive, less messy, etc than a glue pot.

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The only problem I see is how to get SS customers to buy in to the idea of FP.

Joshua didn't he mention that he was using a pretty diluted mix which allowed the quick dry time?

He also mentioned a drill mounted buffing pad by 3M I think, and Meguires polish. Not sure which Meguires he mentioned.
BTW Steve we missed you at the meeting.
Bob

[QUOTE=Bob Harris] BTW Steve we missed you at the meeting.
Bob[/QUOTE]

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=Bob Harris] He also mentioned a drill mounted buffing pad by 3M I think, and Meguires polish. Not sure which Meguires he mentioned.
BTW Steve we missed you at the meeting.
Bob[/QUOTE] I am sure it would be #7 #9 (the swrill remover would be too corse) #7 works great it is what I use.

Bob - was great to meet you, and I'm glad to see you on the forum!

Yes, he mentioned the dilution of the shellac... I'd forgotten to mention it because it seemed to be very close to what I am already used to.

He said it is harder to burn through a shellac finish than it is a lacquer finish (on the buffing wheel), and thats been my experience as well. Never came close to burning through one.

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Hey Joshua it was great to meet you too. Hope you will be a regular at future LINT metings.
Didn't Brune say something like a thumbs thickness of shellac flakes and fill with alcohol in a pint mason jar? I didn't really get that and I thought he also said something about that dilution for a start??? He certainly didn't change mixes in the demo that I was aware of. Also liked his suggestion of using the Everclear bottles for storing mixed shellac, good recycling idea and the narrow neck keeps evaporation at a minimum.

Bob, I got the impression that the everclear bottle is designed for that slow evaporation, and he felt it was better than other bottles (wine bottles or the like). I usually use wine or absinthe bottles, with a cork that has a slit in it.

He is using essentially a 25-30% solution, from what I could gather. Essentially just fill a jar with some amount of shellac (the width of your thumb is what he recommended), then add alcohol until the jar is filled to the height of three of your thumbs. Agitate twice daily until it is fully dissolved (few days). Don't forget to strain it to get the bug parts out.

You're right, he didn't change mixes during the demonstration, except when he spirited off. He used a pad that had much residual shellac still in it, and added the alcohol to that. Which effectively just makes the shellac thinner.

I noticed he also pressed the pad on the bottle neck in order to distribute the alcohol or shellac through the pad, so it is not on the surface - and if I remember correctly he is never charging the pad with the cover on.

I've got a couple of guitars to french polish here, so I am going to give his method a shot - except with blonde shellac rather than seedlac.

Best wishes,
Joshua

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Well, I gave it a go. I spent about 65 minutes french polishing a back. Had I done better pore filling initially, it'd be a nearly perfect polish already. I even put it on the buffer - I figured I've only got an hour into it so far anyway. I found it impossible to burn through, and this was maybe 5 minutes after a quick spiriting off session.

The process involved very minimal use of oil.

There are one or two errors I made with technique, but applying shellac this fast is new for me. Nothing that couldn't be easily rectified with a bit more work. I'm going to level it out since I still have some pores and have another go at it. But I'm still saving a significant amount of time.

All in all, I think I should be able to do an entire guitar in less than a week start to finish, working a few hours a day. Its not very difficult.

My digital camera crapped out this week, or i'd post a picture.
jfrench38464.7473958333

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
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Joshua, it sounds like you have already profitted from the Brune class. I get the feeling that the old masters must have worked that quickly. Or at least the folks who polished their guitars.

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Joshua,
Thanks for the update. I've never french polished, but I think I'll give this method a try. He must have really slapped it on heavily if he finished in 20 minutes. What exactly did he use for pore filling? Was it a powdered material?
Thanks,
BruceH