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Hi all,

Even though I have started on the necks of several guitars, I now have to find plans for the rest. I didn't think that this would be a big deal as I have some already in Cumpiano's book and my guitar video.

I also know that I can get plans through LMII and they are fine plans. The problem is that I am looking for plans of the Torrez design. It is a slightly smaller classical distinguished by its rounded heel. Does anyone know a source?

Thanks, Steve Brown

Steve,

Here is a good site to check out if you have not already: Torres guitar.

Not sure of other sources of plans. Maybe Joshua knows. Joshua?

Jeff

Steve,

Here's a site where you can download the Torres plan for free. Torres plan I believe it is part of the other site listed above. Here is another place to buy the plan: Torres plan 2

Also, if you have an early Hauser plan, his guitars were strongly influenced by Torres. His headsstock design was identical, as was the purfling scheme, bridge, rosette, bracing pattern, top thickness, etc... Hauser actually used a Torres guitar from Michael Llobet to measure and study when he was coming up with his design. David Schramm has a lot of information about his influence on his classical guitar building CD. It's a great reference CD if you build classical guitars.

Cheers!

John

Well.... I am starting to feel like the Torres police lately, but purely in the interest of correct information:

Torres guitars aren't necessarily distinguished by a rounded heel. Yes, this is the design used on many, but is also not used on many. Hauser's instruments do mimic Torres in a lot of ways (especially the "Hauser" rosette, which is really a Torres rosette) but the top thicknesses bare zero relation to Torres. If you're wanting to do a guitar after Torres, I wouldn't consider Hauser a reasonable place to start. Very different animals, and by many accounts (which I agree with) Hauser never captured "Spanish" sound, or particularly that of Torres.

With that said, the Hauser design is an extremely successful design, and preferred by a great deal of guitarists.

The Nostberg site is good for most things, and the plans are printable. I've never printed them out, and I have no idea how they relate to other Torres guitars. The best thing I can say is to buy the Romanillos book, and the Waldner/Grondona book (which I don't believe will have a second printing). With the Waldner/Grondona book comes a CD, and you're able to hear several Torres instruments - somewhat helpful.

Some suggestions - it is impossible to build a "Torres" style guitar with Cedar, so use Euro Spruce for the soundboard and Spanish Cedar for the neck. Make your braces of Euro Spruce, and make them 7mm wide by 3mm tall, triangulated or rounded on the top. Make it with Hide glue. A decent soundboard should come to under 2mm, make your neck geometry such that you get a bridge at about 8mm to 9mm tall. Do not scallop your harmonic and transverse bars. Bring your sides well under 2mm - I bring down to 1.6 before final sanding. String it with Hannabach Goldin trebles, which are very close to gut in density and sound.

"Making Master Guitars" by Roy Courtnall, I've just remembered, has some Torres plans - one of which seems a typical Torres. I believe he sells these plans from his website as well.

Hope this helps some.

best wishes,
Joshua French

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Steve,
check with robbie o'brien...he's the expert here for classical guitars!!!!!!
walter

"Making Master Guitars" by Roy Courtnall, I've just remembered, has some Torres plans - one of which seems a typical Torres. I believe he sells these plans from his website as well.

This book is a great source for for comparing the guitars built by the "masters" I highly recommend it. It allows you to compare the different instruments.
You can also buy Torres plans as well as plans for the other guitars mentioned in the book from this website. http://www.guitarplans.co.uk/plan1.htm

I second and agree with everything Joshua noted except maybe the strings...every classical player and builder has their favorite strings but the Hannabach are great strings.

The reason why Joshua said use spanish cedar for the neck is an important one. While you will see alot of classical guitars in the US built with mahogany for the neck, the lighter weight/density of the cedar will make for a much better classical guitar. It is easy to work and is the way to go.

The reason for the euro spruce is not about classical guitar snobbery (although there are some that wont look at a guitar unless it is german spruce with brazilian rosewood), it is about the sound. If you are trying to build a Torres and you want it to sound like a Torres, then the closer you stay to the tradition, the more you will learn from the sound. There are many great classical guitar builders that never build on anything but one plantilla (shape) but over their career refine their craft into an art.

Today there are many contemporary builders who are building lattice braced and other non-traditional designs but just as a Hauser is not and doesnt sound like a Torres, these modern classical guitars do not sound the same as a traditional Spanish guitar. There is much debate in classical circles (both builders and players) as to which is better, but if you are learning to build in the spanish style, then the Torres with its traditional Spanish sound is a great place to start.

The Torres in the Courtnall book is good representative as it was towards the end of his first epoch. Torres built from 1852 to 1869 and then from 1875-1892. These are referred to as his first and second epoch and surviving guitars are noted as SE60 or FE08 and so forth.

LMI and others sell the Courtnall plans so that is a good place if you are getting the Courtnall book. The Courtnall, Romanillos and Waldner/Grondona books are must haves for classical builders (in my opinion) as they give a solid foundation for design considerations and are so full of useful info that you will re-read parts over again for years.

My comments regarding strings are really the result of two things - my own experimentation with strings on guitars I've made based on Torres, and the Richard Brune masterclass I attended this past weekend.

Richard spoke about strings at some length and brought many good points up. Mainly that the switch from gut to nylon had a huge effect on the sound and direction of the classical guitar. All the nylon is the same (ie. the trebles) since Dupont holds the patent for it, and is only manufactured their way (reportedly).

He felt that on the old guitars, such as a Torres, the nylon does not produce a good sounding treble in the upper register. On more "modern" designs, which are braced heavier, this is not an issue. He went on to explain that carbon strings (and Savarez Corums) work really well on original Torres guitars, and have more resemblance to gut.

He stated further that the Hannabach Goldins have almost the same density as gut. They're probably the closest thing to gut without using gut. My personal preference is for the Corums.

I think the corums or goldins are a good place to start when stringing up such a guitar. Experiment though to find what you like best. But bear in mind that Torres never even heard of nylon, so a more "authentic" sound is likely to be achieved by something resembling gut.

Best wishes,
Joshua

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Joshua, you had to be reading my mind. While I have used and like the goldins, corums are my preference. For a Torres sound I too try to stick as close as possible to gut.

I have gut on several historical instruments in my collection but in performance they just dont last (and are expensive) so the compromise I am happy with is corums or goldins.

My experience with Torrez (ie, those, I have seen and/or played) have all had the rounded heel. My guess is that modern luthiers may use it to distinguish the design.

I am not married to the design however. My reasons for wanting to build the "Torrez" design was that I own one made by G.V. Rubio (Braz./spruce) and absolutely love it! I like the smaller body that produces all that sound! (or is that me? )

On the other hand, I could easily be persuaded to go the Hauser route or the Fleta route or the Romanillos route. I have recordings made with all these guitars and they all have something special. Given that Hauser was a woodworker before Segovia asked him to build a guitar, maybe I should start there!

Thanks again far all the info. I am ordering several sets of plans tonight as well as the book you recommend. BTW, regardless which design I settle on, it will have some modifications if for no other reason than I'm ornery.

Regards, Steve Brown

Shawn, I will try to respond to as many points as I can remember:

As to strings... I used have used Corums (and enjoyed them!)since I bought my GV Rubio as they were recommended by him. Then I discovered Galli Genius Titaniums! Holy cow! These are great strings! If you haven't yet, please try them. I was told to actually back off the trebles as I play because I was too loud! My Teacher couldn't believe the power.

My current guitar has a Spanish cedar neck and I am sold on it. It balances well on the leg and imparts a light feel as you play, say no more (not to mention the smell as I take it from its case!

Truthfully, I'm not that into a reproduction. As mentioned elsewhere, I just like Rubio's interpretation of the Torrez design.

I am very familiar (sound-wise) with lattice bracing. John Williams is a huge proponent of it. I can't say I am altogether sold on the design because I have a feeling it is a very unforgiving design playing technique-wise. In other words, it does not suffer fools gladly!    And then there's the sound... You're right, some like it, some don't...

As I said elsewhere, I intend to buy basically a variety of plans and information and chose which to start with. Keep in mind, that I have started several (4) necks. Three Spanish cedar (the point wasn't lost) and the fourth, mahogany (because I like even numbers )

Regards, Steve Brown