Official Luthiers Forum!

Does anyone make/sell yellow metal colored frets? Not plated but gold, bronze or brass colored all the way through?

I know it exists as Gibson uses gold fretwire on their Les Paul Supreme model. Where to buy it? Sorry, I haven't a clue.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Can't remember the site but maybe a Google search will reveal...there is some one out there that sells all sorts of fret wire...from Titanium to Stainless Steel and probably gold as well. There are a few builders out there that build with "exotic" fret wire so if you can't find the supplier via Goog then you might try finding a builder's site boasting same and get lucky that way.

p.s. some wire wouldn't make sense...like brass or copper or anything real soft ( pure nickle) as the steel strings would wear them down very fast ( real fast). I would tend to think that would be true of the gold wire unless it was a low karat mixed with something much harder.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Aren't those metals ( gold, bronze, and/or brass ) too soft for frets? Or were you just referring to that color in a hard metal? Sorry!

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DES - Shepherd, MI

Gibson says that their gold wire is an alloy mixture. I'm sure that is to make it stronger.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

They're actually a copper alloy. Some of the copper alloys are very strong and abrasion resistant.

Warmoth was the only source I found for gold-colored fretwire after an extensive search last year.

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D..

[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] p.s. some wire wouldn't make sense...like brass or copper or anything real soft ( pure nickle) as the steel strings would wear them down very fast ( real fast). I would tend to think that would be true of the gold wire unless it was a low karat mixed with something much harder. [/QUOTE]

Dave, as an ex-jeweler I can state with certainty that I can make an 18Kt alloy hard enough for fret use. Not that I've done it or would but I remember when a watch company (Longine?) broke the 2mm barrier for watch thickness back in the 70's. It sported an 18Kt machined body stiff enough to wear with a leather strap! The company was asked exactly what you said and they assured the magazine (JC-K) that their formulation was plenty strong.

Don't know what relevance this factoid has but I wanted to throw it out there anyway.   

Regards, Steve Brown

Steve,
Thanks for the info. I always equated high Kt to softness when it came to Gold. What I was trying to say was that any of the pure metals I mentioned would seem
to me to be too soft ( in their pure state). Now making an ALLOY, I would think, is a whole different ball of wax. I also would think that the alloy has to be pretty hard so that those Steel strings don't wear them down too fast. An alloy is probably the only way...right? That's what is so great about this forum is the vast array of knowledge. You must have some great tools and techniques left over from your jeweler days! Hey... what would those gold alloy frets cost?

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] Steve,
Thanks for the info. I always equated high Kt to softness when it came to Gold. What I was trying to say was that any of the pure metals I mentioned would seem
to me to be too soft ( in their pure state). Now making an ALLOY, I would think, is a whole different ball of wax. I also would think that the alloy has to be pretty hard so that those Steel strings don't wear them down too fast. An alloy is probably the only way...right? That's what is so great about this forum is the vast array of knowledge. You must have some great tools and techniques left over from your jeweler days! Hey... what would those gold alloy frets cost? [/QUOTE]

You're absolutely right. Just remember that even "plain old" 14Kt, 10Kt etc are indeed, alloys. They are optimized according to their ultimate purpose. For instance, casting metal is a slightly different formula than that meant to be drawn into wire or frets or whatever. It bears mentioning also that these "recipes" are carefully guarded secrets so you find that casting houses are very often "brand" specific.

Another good example is gold "solder". By its nature, it has to be the same karat as the color suggests. In other words, 14Kt solder HAS TO BE 14Kt except with a lower melting point. This change in formulation renders solder very brittle and useless for casting but that is another story...

Regards, Steve Brown

PS Since I'm a rank amatuer when it comes to luthery, I am glad I can actually contribute some "expert" information. It's a nice break from asking all those beginner questions!

PPS To answer the question of cost, anywhere from the cost per pennyweight of 14Kt up to whatever the manufacturer thinks the market will bear! My guess would be $22 to $30 or so per pennyweight if sold as a commodity. That would equate to 1 to 2 frets per pennyweight. Don't hold me to this, I could be waaaaay off. sfbrown38464.7074074074

Thanks for the input - Warmoth does seem to stand alone in the business of gold fretwire.
Judging by their website, they seem to want to sell their fretting service not the wire itself.
Anyone done business with these folks? Opinion?

I don't have any experience buying gold or brass colored fret material, but I know Warick Bass use frets they say are "bell brass". Warick Bass: Frets in the bellfry

I also know that a lot of older "student" guitars like the Harmony Stella I have had brass frets. They seem kind of soft, but I don't have any 'hard' evidence comparing mechanical properties of that material vs. the nickel-silver frets. But I know from my machine shop experience that there are hard copper alloys, and just like iron alloys, the hardness depends a lot on how the material is annealed and tempered.TomS38465.3825578704