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[QUOTE=Rod True] [QUOTE=Don A] Interesting clip but as usual I generally ignore most of what I hear on NPR. What struck me was that you need to cut your own trees to know the wood. For me personally, if I had invested the time and effort into producing my tops from scratch, I'd be more inclined to find it superior as well.

On the other hand,
[QUOTE=Rod True] I don't really want to get into a pissing match....... I ain't no bluegrass southern boy looking for the right git-fiddle to play.[/QUOTE] this struck a nerve as being a bit condescending and stereotyping.[/QUOTE]

Your right Don, it was stereotyping, as the majority of bluegrass players that I've heard talk about guitars believe that Adi spruce is the king of spruce, bar none (period). Sorry if it sounded condescending, I only meant it to be stereotyping.[/QUOTE]

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

I am a bluegrass southern boy looking for the right git-fiddle to play.




Ron old man39079.960787037

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

I was at first glad to see and hear this, but when I listened to it...I had to do a double take, so here it is as transcribed by me:
---------------------------
"I don't know anybody in the history of this business...who has...talked about this...this way, so this is not sort of a normal conversation that you would necessarily be having with someone in this business...heh, heh...."
---------------------------
An odd way to say it, whatever it may be.
-j.j.Brown39083.0324768519

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

Pat, good point. It may be seriously edited and it ended up to be slanted or out of context.
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

[QUOTE=old man] I am a bluegrass southern boy looking for the right git-fiddle to play.




Ron [/QUOTE]

Didn't you just finish building two great git-fiddles Ron

Just ribbin' ya bud

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=Rod True] [QUOTE=old man] I am a bluegrass southern boy looking for the right git-fiddle to play.




Ron [/QUOTE]

Didn't you just finish building two great git-fiddles Ron

Just ribbin' ya bud [/QUOTE]




I know, Rod. I just posted for the fun of it, I wasn't offended at all.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

[QUOTE=j.Brown] ---------------------------
"I don't know anybody in the history of this business...who has...talked about this...this way, so this is not sort of a normal conversation that you would necessarily be having with someone in this business...heh, heh...."
---------------------------
[/QUOTE]

Uhhh.... is it just me, or am I the only one that thought he was referring to the LANGUAGE of tapping the wood and "releasing the music from the trees" (or whatever he said). Frankly I have never heard anyone talk about it quite that way.

I honestly didn't hear him say he was the first to tap wood, just the first (that he was aware of) to talk about it that way.

I really think some are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I agree with you Brock, I posted that in my first post.

I believe he was talking about the "finding the music in the trees" not about tapping the wood. It's his language and artistic way of looking at what he's doing.

You can certainly tell that he is passionate about his way of presenting what he does to, and I agree with Hesh that it really can do us much more good than harm.

Can you imagine who lurks around here (potential clients even and what they read about our quibbling about one we should be looking up to and applauding for being able to present to the NPR (who the heck are they anyway??) listeners and where ever else this was broadcast that there is a uniqueness to the custom builder.

I almost certain that anyone who doesn't build or know much if anything about building guitars who would have listened to TJ on that interview would have thought that there was magic in his voice as he "listened to the music in the trees". And I also bet that no one thought he was self promoting. He certainly didn't say 'come to me, cause I'm the only one who knows how to get the music out of the trees'.

I hope it does our community (custom guitar builders) some good and that this topic here on the OLF doesn't harm us all

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I don't think TJ's comments on tapping wood were ever meant to mislead anyone, more over I think they were an innocent attempt on his behalf to magnify the romance that is attached to his craft.

Quite frankly though, as much as I respect the guy as a note worthy builder of highest acclaim, until he were to include some lutzii in with his comparisons and maybe even some redwood to, I really could'nt give a rodents pink ring about TJ's tap test or his stash of Adi.

Cheers

Kim

I agree Kim, the poor guy has never tapped lutzii before, let's give him a chance!

Tj a Jerk.... c`mon he dosent desrve that.
before one calls one a jerk on a public forum, that person really needs to think before they post. you only cast a dark shadow over yourself.

How can you draw anything but inspiration from this interview? I am really glad he did it, and to hear the chuckle in his voice means he was having fun and I am glad to hear that as well.

Go Tj, I say!
I love the guy.

Matt Gage

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] For those of us who are concerned that we need to make the OLF attractive for pros and newbs alike it would be a good idea to avoid bashing any one IMHO.......

Thanks
[/QUOTE]

I agree with that.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

maybe he has tapped lutz and redwood and it didn't come to him as it hasn't to others the magical wood. he may like addy better. how many guitars built with lutz over the years as compared to addy or others. i for one thank tj. good guy, great builder. any doubter's here who have builta few guitars want to comare his to yours? using lutz or whatever magical lumber you have with his addy or anything else he may build with

[QUOTE=stan thomison] maybe he has tapped lutz and redwood and it didn't come to him as it hasn't to others the magical wood. he may like addy better. how many guitars built with lutz over the years as compared to addy or others. i for one thank tj. good guy, great builder. any doubter's here who have builta few guitars want to comare his to yours? using lutz or whatever magical lumber you have with his addy or anything else he may build with[/QUOTE]

Maybe TJ has tapped lutz and redwood Stan. Maybe your correct and he did not find the magic when compared against his exclusive stash of adi.

He obviously found no magic in either of the pieces of euro or sitka spruce that he used in his demonstrational comparison. Indeed if the "magic" HAD been present, the detectable difference between them and the adi would have been far less apparent. Maybe that was the whole point of using the particular pieces he did.

If this be the case, I do not consider this a deception on TJ's part but rather a sensible choice of props to better demonstrate his points and the reason for his choice for soundboards. Especially so when you consider that the target audience was not a conference hall full of discerning fellow luthiers but rather a disconnected group of radio listeners, most of whom probably never have or will hear a hand built guitar being played before them.

I have some great adi that I got from Steve at Colonial Tonewoods, the stuff rings like a bell, I have some finer grained adi that I got from ebay, it rings like a cereal box I have some Lutz that I got from Shane at High Mountain it rings just as loud, long and clear as the best adi I have and I also have some very tight grained Redwood that I got from Don at New England Tonewoods that is probably the most responsive of all.

All accept the cereal box are great yet they are all different. They all show great promise, and I am certain that, in the right hands, each will make an incredible sounding guitar. My point is that IMO TJ's tap and ring thing on the radio was never meant to be a proper comparison of any sort. I think that it was always meant to be no more than a light interest story directed at the masses and promotional in the main of the romance of the craft more so than TJ himself. (however I am sure that the image in minds of him having exclusive access to the Aladdin's cave of magic adi won't hurt him a bit)

The "Magic of the wood" is there alright Stan, however in MHO it is certainly not restricted to TJ's stash of adi. If the magic of this craft does have any exclusions, it is only to those who do not take the time to develop the skill and knowledge that will allow them to release it.

Happy tapping, cheers

Kim

This thread is draining my life force.

The guy was referring to his "singing tree", getting songs from trees, wood, etc. I am sure that he is fully aware that several hundred of us exist out there in the world who rat a tat tap wood everyday.

Mike

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=Hesh1956] For those of us who are concerned that we need to make the OLF attractive for pros and newbs alike it would be a good idea to avoid bashing any one IMHO.......

Thanks
[/QUOTE]

I agree with that.

[/QUOTE]

and I agree with that.

Frankly, I know of several prominant luthiers who won't give this forum the time of day because people talk down to or about the pros who we aspire to be like with our building.
What gives there? Folks, it's just basic kindness, decency and respect that we shouldn't talk ill of others.
Perhaps you never heard the phrase "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all" from your mother or father. It's about time you heard it and took it to heart.

Frankly, I'm disgusted that we keep losing the pros here because people have diarhea of the mouth.

As Hesh said, there are those of us who desire to have the Greats of the industry amongst us here, and if we keep finding ways to criticise them when they aren't here, what makes us think they will ever come here and want to add to our community?

I'm getting tired of it...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

... and to piggy back on that thought. I will tell you what is REALLY disappointing about this.

When the pros or really advanced folks leave (and perhaps talk bad about the community) when 90%+ of the membership (the silent majority?) welcome their input and crave the knowledge they share.

I understand that they spend their time here to share their knowledge and they really don't expect anything in return except kindness and gratitude. However, I do wish the pros would recongnize this silent majority and take that into consideration before leaving and labeling the entire community based on the actions of a few.   

I understand it is hard to suffer critisism from people with no credible experience, but I continue to emphasize that some among us, while we may be newer builders (I have been at this 8 years and still consider myself to be "learning"), we are VERY serious about this.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Well said Don, Brock, Kim and Hesh.

Opinions are hard to keep silent and I have been guilty of "thumping" one of the greats of this craft right here on this very forum. He no longer comes here anymore, to bad too cause he sure knows what he's talking about (Just to clear your minds it was Rick Turner) I have addressed my stupidity with him off forum, but still I can't help feeling that I've had a part in turning him off the OLF.

We all have opinions and that's a good thing otherwise we may all be like Don (just using you as a scapegoat Bud not serious). I guess there has to be a balance of when to give that opinion and when to keep it to myself. It's something I will most likely be learning for the rest of my days.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I just don't understand why people here have the urge to thump the heads of people they don't know anything about. TJ Thompson is probably one of the 5 top builders in the world. He does not need to promote himself and has more work than he will ever be able to complete in his lifetime. His guitars sell for the price of a modest house in most parts of the country but his real passion seems to be repair and when you have a 6 figure guitar that needs repair, he is the guy. If there was any builder in the world that I would like to study with, he would be the guy.
I don't get it, if he had come to this forum and slagged someone about their building, mayhaps this would be justified but he just did an interview about the sound of something with which he is more in tune than just about anyone else on the world. Wouldn't it be great if he were hanging out here, I guess not.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Hello All,

I’m one of the newbe’s here. And, I would like to say, that I am very impressed! I have only been apart of this forum for a short time. But, it is evident to me, that there are many fine people on this forum. From what I’ve read in just these posts alone, I see wisdom, honor, and forgiveness. I might be getting little to mushy here, Sorry. But, I sincerely regard these qualities of character in people to highest degree.

Many of you have already shared your knowledge of lutherie with me, and have not asked anything in return. I want to thank all of you for your help now, and in the future! The bonus for me is, I get to not only receive some of the best advise anywhere on guitar building, I also get to interact with some of the nicest people anywhere!

For me! The OLF is an ABSOLUTELY great place to be

Thanks to all, Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

WOW...do I ever feel bad about the way this thread has progressed! While I was one of the original critics of the 2 statements, it was a disagreement with the WORDS and not the man. Personal attacks and name calling have no place on the forum nor any place for that manner.

Those of you who know me would agree that I don't have a mean bone in my body...you would also have to agree that I am objective and logical by nature. That characteristic is what led me to question the WORDS. In the process, if I offended any of my forum comrades then I am truly sorry.

Nonetheless, I would hope that it's still fair to question statements that seem untrue and in need of clarification or confirmation. Until I heard the program, I was unaware of who TJ Thompson even was...but that really doesn't matter since my reaction would still have been the same no matter who said it. Since that time, those of you who know him have chimed in with what you think he meant. I give that a lot of merit and defer to your judgement.

While I agree that it was wrong for those to call him names or put him in the "jerk category" I hope that we as a forum still accept the practice of questioning false, unclear or wrong statements. Otherwise, if we have to hold our opinions based on who it is who makes a statement, then we become a community of what others have described as "a mutual admiration society".

If I did something wrong, then I want to know. If it was truly wrong then I am truly sorry. If the feeling is that I should not have questioned a major luthier's statements then I should go elsewhere.

Respectfully...JJ

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Questioning what someone says is certainly a good thing JJ. It does a few things. It holds those with knowledge in some kind of accountability least they get a big head. And it helps us to learn and understand better the things being conveyed.

We should always question those who have authority over us (Authority is given by the recipient remember, not forced on us by the "leader") but of course there should be respect in the presentation of the questioning.

We give authority to those who have knowledge and the luthiery community is IMHO good at doing this. Those who have been building and refining their methods for a long time like TJ, Rick Turner, George Lowden......(there are more, I just don't know them or can't think of them at this moment) have certainly earned there seat at the table of the "Great's". Now we don't have to agree with the way that they present their knowledge and wisdom, (I'm still learning here) but we should first learn about who is giving this knowledge and why they deserve our respect, they've been around a long time and some of them may be tired of conveying their wisdom but still chose to do it because they really don't want it to die with them.

JJ, I don't think you did anything wrong and I certainly don't think it's wrong to question ANYONE'S statements. I may not have liked the way that you presented your statements, but that's my problem too isn't it. I would just hate to turn someone like TJ off of this forum for a statement like "This was self-promotion at its worst".

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

JJ I don't think there is any prob with you. So in my mind none of this is directed at you. The thing that sent me over the edge was the jerk comment.

However with respect to questioning statements that are untrue etc. I think it would be wise when talking to (or about) someone who has 20, 30, 40+ years of experience in this business and acheived a high degree of status amonst other luthiers and players to seek "clarification" rather than issue a challenge, or to offer the way YOU do things. It only stands to reason that if they can survive that long in this business they might actually have learned a thing or two along the way.

However, I think exploring their point (and questioning their methods) is all about approach.

Rather than saying "Hey... lots of people tap wood this is just a bunch of self promotional BS....." It might be better to say

"I guess I am unclear, I have heard people talking about tapping wood for years, are you saying you are doing it differently, using different language to describe what you hear, have a different philosophy about how to get the best sound out of your tops. I am not following, could you please clarify?"

And this process of asking questions will ultimately explain this in a way that does make sense, or it will uncover the weakness of the statement.

I think it is short-sighted (and rude) when people do not at least give the veterans of our craft the benefit of the doubt.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com