Official Luthiers Forum!

     I've been reading about the larson brothers' of chicago and what they built in the first half of last century. I was curious about how cutting edge luthiers today might feel about some of their design ideas. From all reports these guitars are extremely well regarded , well playing, and well crafted. Instead of having truss rods they simply used laminated center strips in necks (nothing too unique here). I wonder how well these stand up over time (also what kind of glue did they use?). I haven't heard any complaints about these necks and notice that the guitars, aparently for more than just age and rarety, are highly sought after by players and collectors, going for prices like $20,000 plus sometimes. I am probably unaware however of their neck resetting or straightening histories.
     I wonder if an un-trussed multi laminated neck may be strong enough if correctly crafted, or how it really compares over time. I'm sure rods are better now--being for one thing ideal for adjusting relief during weather changes. But I'd like to know what makes these old guitars so desirable besides obvious skill, use of fine materials, and sometimes beautiful abalone detailing. It tempts me to notice that some old ways are plenty strong enough.
     I am also curious about the patented center bars designed to relieve top stress, and running from the neck to tail block (I think). And that hook often found around the neck heel,(to those familiar with it) to hold it in tight. I understand some of the Maurer guitars also had adjustable necks. Does any one have any insights about these old inovations?
          There are so many questions. Maybe I should just go back down into the shop and do some real work.
    nickton39079.7160300926

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

All good questions. Don't we have a Larson Bros. expert on the Forum?

I'm certainly not a Larson Brothers expert, but I've seen and worked on a
few and they've not really stood out to me in any way other than their
uniqueness and novelty. They were certainly very innovative and
progressive, and thier craftsmanship was excellent but I don't know of
many players who seek them out for thier tone. Not that they sound
bad, but I haven't personally played any that would stand out as
remarkably oustanding. I think the $20,000 mark would be an extremenly
rare sale. We had one of thier Prairie States up at Elderly listed around
15,000 if I remember right, and it sat there for a long time, eventually
selling for I think below $10,000. On that one I had to repair where the
end block and sides had come loose from the back from the tension of
the internal rods.

Don't get me wrong - I absolutely love the things. From thier harp
guitars to the huge Prairie States, laminated braces and quasi-adjustable
neck angles, they are very very cool instruments. If I had the money I
would love to own a few. Rather than buying them for legendary tone
however, it would be more a collection of novelty. They were very finely
built instruments which were very innovative, breaking a lot of rules,
trying new ideas and pushing the limits of the time. If you haven't
already, you should get the book that I think one of the Larson's
grandsons wrote. Larsons Creations I believe, but I don't remember the
author's name.

As to the specifics you mentioned, I don't have much recollection about
the condition of the necks I've seen, but I don't recall them as too terribly
unique in any sense - pretty much just a laminated neck. As to glue, it
would have been hide glue. There wasn't much else around other than
fish glues and casein glues, although things like urea formaldehyde and
resorcinol may have been available around then. In any case, it would be
hide glue. As to the center bars, they will inevitably change the way a
body moves and vibrates, and the stress still has to go somewhere. I
haven't seen any they made for Maurer, so I can't help you with those.

The spirit of the Larson's style of building was innovation and
experimentation. If they were building today I bet you would see a lot of
carbon graphite, UV finish, bolt on necks, adjustable truss rods (these
were under patent by Gibson at the Larson's time), in a shop with CNC,
computer spectrum analysis programs and who knows what else. They
did what they could with materials and technology of the time, and I'm
sure they would have done a lot of different things if they had what we
have available today.
David Collins39080.0208796296

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Nick,
Contact Frankie Montouro. He is just a few blocks from the original Larson Bros factory in Chicago, and works almost exclusively on these old guitars. He will steer you in the right direction. You can find his website HERE

Good luck!
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com