Official Luthiers Forum!

Awhile back I asked about a program to draw up some blueprints in. The idea was to take my guitar and measure it and create a blueprint from the real thing.

Long story short I began to focus on a program called Rhino 3d which looked promising. I downloaded an evaluation copy and started playing. After a while I hit some roadblocks. A quick conversation w/ tech support yielded this response...

Ronald -

Rhino is mainly a 3d modeler. The current Rhino 3 version does not
have
a good way to create simple accurate, to scale blueprints.

Having said that, we have added this capability to our upcoming Rhino 4
version. We hope that we will be able to release the new version soon.


- Scott Davidson
Technical Support
(206)545-7000
www.rhino3d.com
www.accurender.com


Just thought I'd share in case others had similar thoughts...

Hi Ronn,

Don't know if you saw my post about a week ago, but you can use any 3D CAD software to create the "wireframe" model, and import that into Rhino or trueSpace to render it. Rhino and trueSpace can make incredibly realistic textures, whereas the CAD software (even the best CAD software) does not have nearly as good surface texturing/shading capabilities. DesignCAD 3D can be purchased on Ebay for $15 for v.14, or less than $100 for the latest version (v.17, I think.)

Happy drafting!

Dennis

_________________
Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Ron,

I have used Rhino to draw 2D and 3D parts for my guitars. I believe John Watkins uses it as well for the 3D stuff he is doing for his CNC work.

Accuracy of the models I've made in Rhino has never been an issue...my accuracy is sometimes questionable, tho!

As Dennis points out, Rhino's renderer (Flamingo) can do a pretty fair job...the most photorealistic renderings I have done have been using Maya...but the Maya software is a bit steep (in price and learning curve) for the casual user.

[QUOTE=DennisLeahy] Rhino and trueSpace can make incredibly realistic textures, whereas the CAD software (even the best CAD software) does not have nearly as good surface texturing/shading capabilities.

[/QUOTE]

Hummm.!!???!!! I am assuming you are referring to cad drafting packages and not cad 3D modeling, rendering, and animation software. Wile Truespace is a decent package and is more user friendly for the common user. I would be willing to compete (all in good humor)MichaelP39085.4068634259

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I have zero desire to delve into modeling. I simply want to create a printable (full size)semi-acurate blueprint without dropping $500 on software and spending the next year learning to operate said software... Seems that may be a bit much to ask.

In my last thread on the subject Rhino looled promising and at student pricing was the front runner in my search. I just wanted to get this info from Rhino tech support out there so that anyone else that might have had a similar idea wouldn't be in for a suprise.

I'm still open for suggestions...

Thnx guys

If 2d and simple 3d is all you need plus the ability to plot to scale there are several in expensive packages out there for under $500. Turbocad, Generic-Cad and others.

Also... checkout ebay. You can usually buy legit copies of software that are a version or two back for a pittance.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=MichaelP] [QUOTE=DennisLeahy] Rhino and trueSpace can make incredibly realistic textures, whereas the CAD software (even the best CAD software) does not have nearly as good surface texturing/shading capabilities.

[/QUOTE]

Hummm.!!???!!! I am assuming you are referring to cad drafting packages and not cad 3D modeling, rendering, and animation software. Wile Truespace is a decent package and is more user friendly for the common user. I would be willing to compete (all in good humor)[/QUOTE]

I have seen your work, Michael, and I'd be a fool to joust with you. Yes, back in the "good 'ol days" of software, each program had a small fixed niche. Spreadsheets didn't do word processing, word processors didn't do page layout... But now so many software applications have blended functionality.

When I think of CAD, I think of drafting stuff like house blueprints in 2D, with maybe an occasional 3D detail to visually describe something difficult to visualize in 2D. (This shows what a drafting dinosaur I am!) The current state of the art in CAD drafting includes 2D views of any surface by rotating the 3D wireframe, 2D sections through anything by simply slicing the 3D model, and stunningly realistic rendered scenes as either still images or even as movies (walk-throughs, fly-overs, even rendering buildings to accurately show how the scenes changes as the sun arcs across the sky on any given day of the year.) Textures can include "bump maps" to accurately render anything from the real texture of bricks, to wood grain, to various metallic textures. Textures can even be animated to depict such attributes as the surface of water. Glass can have accurate or purposely distorted refraction, surfaces can mirror and reflect other surfaces, and on and on...

So, yes, a full-blown CAD application (like your version of AutoCAD) that includes quality texture mapping and perhaps includes a great rendering engine could "do it all." But, I think it is still at least generally true that CAD software draws accurate lines and planes and meshes, and that data is routinely textured and rendered in one or two other specialized applications. Generally speaking, the modeling packages are weak on CAD functionality, and the CAD applications are weak on modeling and rendering. I only mention trueSpace for its "bang-for-the-buck" rendering capabilities, but it is far from the best professional rendering and animation tools. And I mention DesignCAD because anyone who can learn to use any CAD application can learn DesignCAD, and even the $15 older versions can be used to draw guitars and houses. (I have drafted professionally for cabinet shops and architectural millwork companies, and I used both AutoCAD and DesignCAD. I like 'em both, but for a new guy starting out that wants to make some blueprints on a budget, I'll recommend DesignCAD every time.)

By the way, you should post one of your guitar renderings in this thread. I'm sure a lot of folks would love to see them!

Dennis

_________________
Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

[QUOTE=MichaelP] If 2d and simple 3d is all you need plus the ability to plot to scale there are several in expensive packages out there for under $500. Turbocad, Generic-Cad and others.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Michael and everyone else for the info. The trouble is there are MANY programs that look good to me... Me being mr.clueless in this pursuit. I hesitate to drop a wad then find I have something that is going to require a time/energy commitment I don't want to put forth.

No big deal I'm in no real hurry. I'll continue to investigate and see where I end up

Thnx againRCoates39085.902962963

I found this new with a manual and still shrink wrapped on eBay (thnx Brock). Shipped for $25. Figued I'll give it a try. The current version is 12($149) this is v11.

Any thoughts? again just for making blueprints. Fyi I did look at DesignCad but chose this for no good reason what so ever. Remember? Clueless. Just figured I'd start somewhere.

RCoates39085.9083101852

I like to use pencil and paper cad. Some might call me myself a cad in fact. At least in my own mind. Not that I'd want to confuse you or anything.
I'm a bit like the guy in that Geico ad. on T.V. (sp?)
nickton39086.2253587963

_________________
"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

Ronn, I've used every version of TurboCAD Pro since around v6. It's a program with a lot of good features for the money. There are problems with certain versions, but v11.2 is one of the more stable of the recent releases. The product you show is TC Deluxe, which is not the full featured product that TC Pro is, but will be great for 2D drawings and simple 3D work. I don't think that Deluxe has the more advanced modeling and rendering tools of Pro.

The current release (v12) seems to be one of the more problematic ones for some users. In case you are not aware of it, there is a great "user supported" user support forum for TurboCAD: TurboCAD User ConferenceTomS39086.2327546296

Ron...I just purchased Woodworker's Journal (Feb. 2007) and there is an article about inexpensive CAD software. I think they review about 10 or 12 different types. If you are interested I can email you a copy of the article.

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Brad
Avon, OH

Thnx for the info Tom. I've already gone and had a look at that TC forum. Looks like it will be helpful.

Brad; That would be great I'd love to see that article.

Wefour AT sbcglobal Dot net

Ronn..I will send you a copy tomorrow.

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Brad
Avon, OH

Ronn...I sent the article via email. If you have any problems getting it let me know. The article looks like just what you need.

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Brad
Avon, OH

Thnx Brad I got it. I emailed you back. Thnx again. Any little bit of info I can get will help.

You know..... on my work machine I have a link to a site that provides Computer based training videos. They have the complete videos online so you can watch them (for free) or you can order them on DVD from their site.

The whole thing is based as a web-x type demo, but it is very good. I watched about a half dozen of them and I managed to do a few simple things after that, and I am a complete dufus when it comes to CAD software.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] I am a complete dufus when it comes to CAD software.[/QUOTE]

Me too Brock.

And I took a CAD course in college. You'd think I would remember something about it.

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars