Official Luthiers Forum!

Has anyone ever heard of Simmonds planes? The price seems right.

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Aoibeann

I've never heard of them, but I always go by Ron Hock's advice on his mini-
plane blade movie. The plane is just a tool to hold the blade. Different
options in the plane will appeal to different folks, but for me, I just need
something to hold that blade right.   If you are willing to put the work in,
just about any plane (*not in all cases, though) can be a good value. IMHO...

Some planes wont respond to any amount of tuning....Current Stanleys are a good example. I spent hours getting the sole flat on a Stanley No 4 and then the cheap plastic knurled blade adjustment knob stripped its threads. The plane is now doing good service supplying weight to a pile of spruce tops.

My choice of planes...Veritas. Good value for money IMO.

There a those who make their own and just buy blades.

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

I'd seen these on eBay. They look like knockoffs from India or the Orient, and may be perfectly serviceable. However, very similar items are available for less from places like BusyBee in Canada and Grizzly?Harbor Freight? in USA- at lower prices.

Also, there was a Simmonds tool company in the 'old days' as I recall. This seems like an effort to trade on the confusion.

It would probably be cheaper to buy an old Stanley or similar and add a new blade (Hock, LeeValley, etc) if you want that style of plane.
John

Martin,

You could epoxy a diamond honing plate to the sole and use it to level frets, or glue a sanding board to it to give good control for fretboards etc and still use it as a weight when not in use.

Cheers

Kim

couldn't have said it better myself, todd. though i guess i am a bit heretical in that i've never found it necessary to ditch the standard old stanley/sargeant/millers falls blades. i have no doubt that someday my curiosity will be sufficiently piqued that i will have to try a hock but ....

The tastes in bench plane sizes for some of the tasks we do may vary a bit, but you won't go wrong if you follow Todd's excellent advice. Like crazymanmichael I'm a big fan of old planes, but I have upgraded to Hock irons on some of them, and it does improve performance. FWIW my favorite plane for thicknessing soundbaords and jointing plates is a 5 1/2 with a old Stanley iron. And I don't use planes to shape braces.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Todd, your input on everything that has a blade to sharpen is just amazing, i think i'll save your post again but it will be in Todd's file this time instead of the "sharpening file".

You and a few people are "blade nuts" and it's a real delight to read your passion in your threads, thanks my friend!

Serge

Todd,
Sage advice as usual - any newcomer to fine woodworking tools and luthiery would be wise to follow,
But will I? nuthin doin
Im sorry friends..... but its too late for me.... I started by trying my hand at tuning up a couple old planes I had a Stanley#5 and an "Umbro#4".
They could only be made to work so well I found.
I sort of fell in love with the mechanics of the well tuned and nicely working plane with my new Lie Nielsens, and subsequently was bitten by the bug.
Starting to research the tried and true planes of yesteryear, I discovered England's Norris planes {The Handplane Book} , which pricewise are untouchable for someone like me , and the reproductions are insanely priced too!
Unfortunately I knew I had to have some.
so
I then started on a Shopnotes project infill planes where brass sides are boxjoint soldered to the brass sole, thess are very nicely coming along so far - even though Im only halfway done,
but unfortunately this elevated my desire even further to make nice planes ->to the point where I have started building a cheap home foundry for the purpose of casting brass bodies/soles, .
we'll have to see how that goes!

Dont worry my goal is still to become a luthier, but I fell in love with beautiful old planes in the process.
In addition to the infill planes Im building, I do have plans to make a wooden plane with a nice lignum vitae sole from that block I acquired a little while ago.
The statement that you only need a small handful of nice planes to do luthiery may certainly be true, but my goal is to have a stable of finely crafted planes at my disposal, >its exremely contagious.
onmy limited budget, building was a better way to go, Beware it could happen to YOU!
I hope to have some pictures of the plane's Im working on now to post in a month or so.
Good luck with your plane adventures, I couldnt be more pleased with my Lie Nielsen planes, every one of them works amazingly well - even in the hands of a novice planester they perform incredibly!!!!
I feel they are worth every penny!
Cheers
Charliewood
PS: there was supposed to be a instructional wooden plane building thread coming up, Im patiently looking forward to that, thanks in advance to those who will be working up that tutorial!

Todd I respectfully disagree only with your third sentence. I feel the disconnect is only such that hand planes in general have become disconnected to luthrie and cabinetry.

Necessary, no, disconnected no.

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Todd, I think you're right on the money! I wish I'd had that succinct advice years ago.

[QUOTE=ToddStock] Used 100s or 101s take some tuning, and the new import versions of these (the Kunz comes to mind) are almost not worth bothering with.[/QUOTE]
Ha! I bought one of those Kunz things long ago. The body has disappeared, but the blade makes a very handy scraper.

Wow charliewood, you ARE crazy! Just kidding, but I would really love to see what you come up with, not to mention pictures of the process of making metal planes.

The original Norris planes in nice condition are priced very high compared to the similar Brithish infill planes. You can get a good Spiers, Mathieson or Preston for a lot less than the equivalent Norris, and they are supposed to be just as good as the Norris planes who I understand won much of their popularity due to the adjuster feature. I don't have any experience with either brand (nor infill planes in general for that matter), but I've been curious about them for a long time. I just won this plane on ebay, we'll how it works out:

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Hey C.W. while you are at it add a press forge Damascus knives are so cool. I actually did a year as a moulder-core-maker in the sand foundry side of an aluminum foundry.
My favorite process was lost foam. What process do you plan on using to cast your bodies?

By the way you just strenghthened Todds assertion of "Do you want to build tools or guitars?".

But,
I am willin to bet five Stew-Mac spider cones that if we polled Sirs, Somogyi , Moll , Carruth , Ford, Stock and many other that have been involved with this craft for a length of time as to if they have ever built their own plane the majority would say yes.

Do they still use them is another question though.K.O.39101.7325

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Nice one Arnt!

Charlie, looking forward to see your finished work of art my friend!

I got one of these Woodsmith kit block planes off eBay for $19. I didn't expect very good quality for that price, but was pleasantly surprised to find it includes a Hock blade and chip breaker. The blade and breaker alone retail for $46 from Hock and elsewhere, and the rest of the kit materials are very nice as well. I was mainly interested in trying plane building as a new project. Hock sells plans for a number of different size Krenov type planes, and blade/breaker sets to fit.

Plane Kit

CrowDuckcrowduck39101.6910416667

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

[QUOTE=charliewood]
but unfortunately this elevated my desire even further to make nice planes ->to the point where I have started building a cheap home foundry for the purpose of casting brass bodies/soles, .
we'll have to see how that goes!
[/QUOTE]

How are you building the foundry, what plans are you using? I've been wanting do that for years. The Gingery brothers have a website with books on how to go about it. Are you using their plans/books?

Thanks for the info on other brands of infill planes Arnt! I think they may be more available in Europe Im afraid - I certainly dont see many on Ebay in North America.
I have been cruising sites for information, and although the flower pot furnace type and gingery brothers stuff is definitely more the scale of foundry Im looking at!
Im still assimilating info on casting, so if you guys have any ideas I that you think would work the best I would be glad to hear them, please PM me.
I have a knife making friend - he is my damascus steel connection and my blade maker - Im too lazy to fold steel a thousand times!
LOL
Cheers
Charliewood

Well folks, I couldn't resist this topic. I have come to the conclusion that I am and will be a better toolman than luthier. I would like to add some comments here. Ironically, though Todd and I agree on most everything I can think of( well, maybe he doesn't insist on bloody, purple rear steaks)I have bee using an LN #1 as my standard angle "block" plane. The arthritis in my hands(steering wheel injuries) have made it hard to sqeeze things for very long. That of course is the required grip on most block planes. I don't recommend this choice for anyone who isn't already knee deep in planes. For our OP- as to a start on a block plane, I have a beautiful fettled Stanley 9 1/2- it is yours for $25.00 and postage. It will be so sharp it will be startling.Stock blade, but for most block plane uses it will work well. The offer is just a thought- don't feel compelled to take it.
     I have many numbers of LN's. But for my true block plane use, I prefer LV. It fills my palm a bit better, so less squeeze- also have a tote for it( the Low Angle one). I also like the Norris style adjuster and lateral. I agree that either brand is hard to lose on if it is to be sold. In fact, LN's are often sold on ebay for more than new price-bidders get their blood up and are too lazy to go to LN and check new prices. The only "vintage" LN that might be superior to new, is the #9 when it was bronze bodied. My iron 9 is the most amazing shooter I have used. The hotdog saves these old hands.
       Tuning a plane is art and science- true for used iron and used or new built wood body- you need to know what a good one feels like so you can gauge improvement.
     I can put anyone interested in touch with a fellow who will sell good old Stanleys, Millers Falls, etc. cleaned sharp and adjusted.
     All of my planes have either Hock, LV or LN steel, including thicker chipbreakers. They become more necessary as wood gets harder and fancier. Stock blades will work if sharp and not pressed too hard.
      The closest you will come to a do-it-all plane is one of the bevel up bench planes with 3 irons-standard angle, low angle and high angle grind and the critical adjustable mouth. Mine is an LN low angle Jack- LV makes great ones too. It is a matter of what pleases aesthetically between the brands.
      The recommended stable of planes according to MT is- Standard angle block, low angle block, a #4 or better, a 4 1/2, a low angle jack and a #6 jointer( #7 is good too if you are comfortable with the length and weight.
      I too am in the building wood bodied plane mode. Mine are Krenov style- that is, glued up. Walnut laminated centers, rosewood sides and ebony sole( rosewood and ebony from our Zootman).Hock iron and breaker- brass screwplate clamp or wedge to bar. Building a Knight kit, razee jointer in purpleheart and ipe. Mine will be decorated with beaded body edges and abalone perimeter inlay- like I said, better toolman than luthier.Another with purfling inlays. If I make them to sell down the road, they will be custom planes with inlay choices, including abalone of MOP monogram inlay. I will also be offering HSS laminated to low carbon by high shear silver solder.High carbon the same way. That offers a very thick iron but does not waste HSS or high carbon steel. That helps with damping chatter. I hope to have one to post in about 3 weeks.
      Finally, with permission I hope for from Lance and Brock, I want to offer some cleaned and adjusted older Stanley #5's I have been accumulating- I would like to see them in an auction with proceeds to the forum. This has been in the works for many months but work and health have slowed up progress on them. These will not be beautified, but cleaned and very,very sharp- ready to work. Stay tuned for the go-ahead on those.
     Now, I have my share of power tools too, but for late night family luthiers, or those who want to avoid dust, planes and other edged hand tools are just the ticket.
      Finally, I agree that a straight forward sharpening SYSTEM and plenty of practice with that chosen system is a prerequisite to success with these tools. There are many valid systems out there. I combine several elements in my sharpening from Tormek to diamond to oilstones to Shaptons and stropping.The only excuse for that is that I just plain like to sharpen and try to improve sharpening for myself- since I can rarely pass up old steel, I do a bunch of shaping of edges and honing them. I am a true believer that one must learn to fine hone freehand- if not, too much time is wasted in jigging blades for every little touchup. Again, practice. Rehabbing nasty old Stanley plane irons and vintage steel in good older chisels is the perfect way to become confident with freehand.
       And, I close with this- since I do have a fair idea about what techniques with traditional edged tools will best serve the luthier, a friend is going to help me put together video tutorials on plane and chisel selection and preparation, and for some particular procedures( like thicknessing and jointing) some action lessons that might help people out there who are interested in more handtool focus.
     We all have to find our niche in luthiery. During my hunting trip, I gave great thought to where I am more likely to make a positive difference. My conclusion is that this is my proper place. I will be finishing the 3-4 guitars that are waiting to come to life, but the end product will not likely be my continuing passion.( Oh, and I am on the verge of buying a semi-pro gas fired forge- who knows?) My highest and best regards to all. MikeMiketobey39101.8858796296

Computer fighting me. I can't get in the corrections on typos.mt

Mike, Great post(saved in MT file) and so good to see you back my friend and thanks for spoiling us with your great passion too, i really look forward to see what you are building as tools and your tutorials!!!!!


You have a PM Mike!

SergeSerge Poirier39101.9132175926

I would love to own a collection of LN or LV planes, who wouldn't? I own two Knight planes that I have given to Sweetie's son for Christmas and his birthday. Love the planes, but they are too thick for me to hold and use comfortably. After 5 minutes of using his smoother, my hand is killing me.
I have thought about making a couple of woodies, but I haven't found a place I can get replacement blades like Knight's. He does offer a Japanese style replacement blade though. But I'm not sure that I could make one that would be small enough for me to hold that would be of any real use. So, I will probably save the pennies and look toward buying an LN block plane one of these days.

Todd, who or what is FTJ?

Thanks for your input. I will be saving this thread. Lots of valuable information.

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Aoibeann

Todd surely you jest!
You are one of the people I learn the most from here!
Im anxious to see what you have to say always.
Arnt I forgot to say I really like the look of your acquisition!!
Thanks for chiming in Mike - Im anxious to see your planes - Im sure they will be tremendous!
Im read John Whelans book right now and he describes his first planes as nice for display purposes, but states they didnt turn out quite well enough to be useable, I really hope with all the added material on building planes these days that my first will at least be passable. Im hoping better than that, slow and steady.
Cheers
Charliewood