Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all, I have a quick (hopefully) question about the placement of the nut.

Does it go on the flat of the neck that the fingerboard gets glued to, or does it go on the flat of the headplate? (not sure if that is the correct terminology)

I had it in my head that it should be placed on the flat of the neck that the fingerboard gets glued to (right at the angle of the headplate), but after browsing through the threads I've seen at least on instance where it looks like the nut goes on the flat of the headplate.

Could it go in either location? If so, where does everyone place theirs and why?

Thank you in advance for any help that you can provide.

_________________
Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Hi Blain,

I put mine on the headplate mainly because I like the looks of it there. You can place it in either of the places you have mentioned, just ensure you angle the base of the nut to the headplate if that's where it ends up.

_________________
Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

Thanks for the quick reply Lloyd.

Great news!

I haven't fit my neck to the body yet, so technically I guess I could still put it at either location. I just didn't want to place it at one or the other and then find out that I've messed up a neck because of it.

Thanks again for the quick reply!

_________________
Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I place mine tightly between the head plate and fingerboard, on the plane of the bottom of the fingerboard.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

whilst it is true to say that the nut can go in either place(martin for instance used the less common headstock location for decades), the neck needs to be designed and sized to suit the particular nut placement you want. if your neck is already cut to size, the nut will have to be placed whereever it was designed and cut for, else things will be out of place down the line.

It's pretty much a matter of asthetics. BUT, as Michael said, you neck needs to be sized accordingly. If you change you mind you need to add or take away about 1/4" to/from the end of the neck. That can make a really strange looking heal if you already have things shaped.

For my 'original' instruments (as opposed to reproductions - but is anything truly original in lutherie?) I use a rebate/rabbet in the end of the fretboard. Gives me a little bit more independance in terms of fb position/neck length. Also, for these I use a zeroth fret, so the nut is just a string spacer, and I like to use the same wood as the fb so it blends in.

This, of course, might be a really bad idea

So Hesh, do you angle cut the top of your fretboard to match the angle of the headplate venner--in other words, both sides of your nut will have the same angle? Or, do change the angle cut of your headplate?

Hesh, thanks very much for teh info--would you happen top have a side view pic of one of your guitars? (I didn't want to say nuts)

Like Michael and Paul said it doesn't matter as long as you build in the measurement when laying out the neck.

For me I tend to have it on the FB with pan heads and on the headplate with slot heads, just like the aesthetics of that. Some people I know put it on the neck for 24.9 and the headplate for 25.4 scales, this way the bracing/bridge only moves by .25" or so.

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I do the same thing Hesh does, angle the front of the headplate so the bottom of the nut is 90 degrees to the front and back sides.

For what it's worth, I think it's the same method Cumpiano and Natelson show in their book.

_________________
53% of all statistics are made up on the spot
http://driftwoodguitars.blogspot.com/

Thanks everyone!

This helps out a great deal.

My neck is still in the works so I could go either way on this.

Thanks Hesh, I hadn't thought about the placement of the bridge being affected, so I'll look at that first and see if that still leaves me either option. (Glad that was brought up so that I didn't run into a problem later on)

Thank you all, Now I can get some more work done on my first.

_________________
Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I use a zero fret also, and I place my nut, flat bottomed, on the plane of the FB, not on the headstock.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

blain, if you are making your neck based on your desired nut placement then your bridge location will not be affected in any way. it would only be a problem if you were tryng to put the nut on the headstock of a neck built to take it on the fret board plane. this would change the starting point of your scale and thus your bridge location, an possible cause other problems already aluded to. the reverse is also true.

if you are building your neck, lay it out carefully based on your desired nut location and you should have no problems.

Sorry for the slight highjack... But what does a zero fret do for you?

_________________
If God had wanted us to drink beer, he would have given us stomaches.

[QUOTE=Joel] Sorry for the slight highjack... But what does a zero fret do for you?[/QUOTE]
Well, like anything in lutherie, it has some good points and some bad points.

The good: Since the open string is resting on metal, some buildiers feel it offers the same timbre as a fretted string. It's hard to beat in ease of construction--you just put it in while fretting, and you're done--no slots to cut (you'll still need a nut, though, to guide the strings, but it doesn't have to be cut with the precision of a standard nut)! The best plus, in my opinion, is intonation. If the slot is in the correct place, your string break angle is automatically spot on...IF it's crowned properly, which leads us to...

The bad: It's a fret, and will wear just like a fret, especially if a player bends strings at all. That means more frequent replacement because any divots in the zero fret means buzzing on the open strings, and possible intonation problems. It has to be precisely crowned, like the other frets, but you may have to do it separately from the other frets to insure enough string height above the first fret. You may have to seek out extra tall fret stock for the zero fret to achieve that string clearance. Some people feel it looks inelegant.