Official Luthiers Forum!

I’ve just noticed that one of our fine, fine sponsors now has Douglas Fir available as tops. I’m a sucker for “new” and suffer from WAS, as many of us do. I do love the Lutz, and currently have 2 tops done with it, but I was looking for new again….I gotta stop that.
Although its far from the only indicator of stiffness, it does seem to have an AWFUL LOT of rings per inch.
Anyone have any experience with the Doug Fir?
-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

Hi J.

I built a ABG with a Doug Fir top. I used it because it was available
locally, and, since I built it for myself, I wasn't worried about a customers
perseption. I'm very happy with everything about it, so far. (It's only
about 2 years old now) The bass sounds great. I built real light and used
African Mahogany B&S. The only negitive I could see is, I did get some
flack from a couple players about it being "construction lumber"

But...I sold right away and it's being played professionally. The owner is
crazy about it

I'll try to find some pics.

long

_________________
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

Vertical grain doug fir can be some really nice wood in the finish carpentry field and I would think a nice piece of quarter sawn DF would make a great - and different - tone wood. Don't know about it relative stiffness re: Spruce but seems like a pretty good bet.

_________________
Thank You and Best To All

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

Nice and if Bob has it, it's gotta be gooood!

I know i'd try it!

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]
I will say though that the 2 X 4's in my shop's scrap box and the resaw capability of my bandsaw are calling to me...... [/QUOTE]

Your 2x4s must be a heck of a lot different than the junk we get up here in BC.

I volunteered a bit locally when the SALTS organization was building their latest 130 foot schooner. The wood pile was something else! Fir decking 5x8in x 30 ft quartersawn clear and straight/fine grained. Not much in common with any fir I'd seen before. I scavenged a few short 1x2s from the garbage pile and finally put them to use last weekend, as I ripped some transverse braces from them. Very stiff and easy to work as well- not the usual 'splintery' DF quality.
So DF of the right quality could be a good bet for soundboards, I'd think.

John

Doug fir comes quilted, curly and bear claw. It will show silk in a good piece.

One thing I would like to ad here is that some of the pic's are bad. Most of them will increase again in size if you click on the picture after it's opened. That will be more representative of the actual sets. They are very stiff and very good tap tone. I doubt vey much that one would find a doug fir 2x4 at your local Home Depot or Lowes or sililar store.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I have a dozen or so DF tops and I sort of like them, but have never been able to convince someone they needed one for a top on their guitar.

On average, all the doug fir I have is of considerably higher density than all of the spruces I've ever used; it's also stiffer, so it would have to be made thinner to work as efficiently as spruce.

Thanks Hesh.

Bob I agree with your assesment of DF

If I'm not mistaken Tim McKnight has built with DF.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I know that Robert Ruck has used DF for bracing, and also lodgepole pine. I don't know what the latter would be.

I have used DF for bracing and built 4 parlor sized (0-00) w. DF tops in the past. It is a bit heavier but it is very stiff so it is not a problem to take thin. When it is fine vertical grain it is really consistent and has a really nice tap tone.

You just need to come up with a fancier name for it such as its relatives, the Noble Fir or Silver Fir...sounds much better

Call it what it is. Old Growth Fir. Doesn't sound much better than that. And
if you really want to impress someone who thinks it's construction lumber
just tell them that it's almost all gone and we will never see it grow again
because the climate won't permit it to grow that way so gosh darn it you
should be really happy to let me build a guitar out of it for you.
If you do use it plan your contrasting woods around the fact that over a few
years it will turn as red as mahogany unless it never comes out of the case.

Logger Dan

In the UK & parts of Europe it is sold as "Oregon Pine".

I've used it for bracing a few times on Octave mandolins & bouzouki. Very stiff and has a good ring in the finer old growth stuff. I have a stack of tops that were resawn from a beam taken out of a grain mill built in 1902. Haven't gotten around to using it yet - someday!

GD

Bob:
   One thing, do these tops turn burnt orange in time like most doug?

   I actually like the color! Just wondering.

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Ive got one in the cooker now with a Douglas Fir top, actually its been in the cooker way to long, as its a personal guitar. It will be a while before I have any definitive opinions. I will say its purty

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] I think that regardless of how good DF might be as a tonewood for those who sell their very fine guitars dealing with the public perception would be an issue.

Guitar buyers want what they have been educated to believe is good tonewood. And like our new member Eric indicated the other day the potential resale value of a guitar is a big concern for guitar buyers.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, perceived resale value is important. You might play a DF guitar and love the sound of it, but would be hesitant to buy it because of that.
I've told the story several times....It's just like that unknown brand of guitar I once played and loved, but didn't buy because - who ever heard of a cedar topped guitar with the name "Lowden"?

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I have one Doug Fir top here, bought from Craig Carter years ago. (So it's fairly old.) Haven't had any calls for it, so was planning on a personal guitar with it.
One thing, my piece weeps sap like crazy. I feel that a good sealer will take care of that, but it is a little unusual. Any experience with that problem? Is this fairly common for D. Fir?

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Douglas fir is high in "pitch" content, but changes from piece to piece and even location to location on a single piece. Bleed-thru of this resin thru finishes has been a problem since dinosaurs roamed. Painted objects work well with a sealer primer of course, but that's applicable to siding and so forth. There certainly could be a good clear sealer that might work for tops and perhaps someone out there has found the magic combination. Kiln dried Doug fir or baked tops exposed to temps in excess of about 175F should have the resin solidified and not be so much a problem. YMMV as one success is not a standard

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] I have one Doug Fir top here, bought from Craig Carter years ago. (So it's fairly old.) Haven't had any calls for it, so was planning on a personal guitar with it.
One thing, my piece weeps sap like crazy. I feel that a good sealer will take care of that, but it is a little unusual. Any experience with that problem? Is this fairly common for D. Fir?

Steve[/QUOTE]

One after thought is I talked to Craig's wife probably 8-10 years ago about DF billets and bolts for DB use and she mentioned having some DF that Craig cut and was pretty pitchy. She thought Craig solved the problem by soaking in a solvent bath to dissolve the pitch. She wasn't sure but thought it was acetone.

This all depends on if we are talking the same Carter folk of course.

Larry Davis got it. High temp kiln drying should solidify the pitch.

Hey, glad I checked back. Thanks mucho for the tips.
Larry, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same Carters. (Not the ones in the Whtie House, but Craig and Alicia. Well, she's remarried now, so....)

Every once in a while I take that top out, wipe it with some Acetone, and that stuff washes right away. Which is comforting. But the fact that it can ooze back again is a little disquieting. I thought a sealing of shellac would stop it for good. Baking never occurred to me. I may indeed try that.

Thanks again,
Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com