Official Luthiers Forum!

I have taken Dave and Colin's advice and pick up a Makita 3707 lam
trimmer and after much worrying about it decided today would be
binding channel day.

I decided to make a jig to make the trimmer run parallel to the sides of
the guitar (which i spent quite a while scraping and sanding true).

Unfortunately my workshop is also my bedroom so i thought i'd go
outside to do the dirty work. Unfortunately again it's snowing here and is
pretty cold at the moment so i had to improvise a little shelter!



This is the little jig in knocked up - it looks a little bit shoddy bit it is
precise where it counts and quite sturdy.



Here are the results after extending the neck channels with a razor saw
and cleaning up with a file.





The keen eyed ones of you (that everyone right?) may spot my beginners
mistake of not cutting the back braces thin enough - as a result they
stick up out of my channels slightly - think i might have to chisel the
spruce out and fill the gaps with epoxy and RW dust - is there a better
way?

All in all i was very pleased with how it has turned out - there was zero
chip-out maybe this is because varnished the edges prior to cutting with
a stewmac piloted router bit - which seemed to make a much cleaner cut
than the downcut bit i tried before.

Last but in no way least i want to say a big thank you to all those that
have offered help and assistance so far - it's great knowing there is so
much support for first time builders in the OLF!

Take care,

John.

Thats dedication to the pursuit alright, and a job well done - good on you!!!!
I cant wait to see the finished pics!!
Cheers
Charliewood

John,

That's a great lam trimmer - you won't regret buying it I'm sure. Neat adaptation and that's a great job for first binmding/purfling channels - it looks really clean. The snow is fun isn't it

I'm not sure what your problem with the back braces is - your binding is going to sit in your channel and cover it all up when you glue in the binding/purfling isn't it? Maybe a closeup photo of your "problrm@ would help me better.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

John-
Nice job on your first binding ledge!

I think I understand your problem with the braces....the braces were 'too tall' so the binding ledge didn't cut them off completely?
I would avoid trying to chisel and fill with sawdust unless absolutely necessary.

Can you cut the binding recess bigger and use a wider binding strip? This might be easier even if you have to source/make some wider bindings, and will certainly look cleaner than a fill job.

I may not understand the problem,though...

Cheers

John

Hi John, I love your garden shop and the climate control system!!   
"Where there's a will there's a way"!!

The the guitar is looking really good. Two things you could try to do to
fix where the brace ends show...

1. If the binding is wide enough you can just cut the ledge a little wider,
or add a purfling line to make the binding wider... one of these would be
the best I think. or...

2. When you chisel out the brace ends fill the holes with little pieces
made from scraps from the rosewood, (if you have some scraps).
Keep up the good work!

Long

_________________
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

I'm unable to take a photo so here is a diagram of the problem - the red
thing being the brace.



If i make the channel deeper then i will have to cut a thin strip of binding
and glue it to the existing binding to increase the depth. Any tips for this?

Thanks,

John.

As Bob suggested, you could add purfling (WBW or similar). There's lots of info in the various archives about pre-bending purfling while sandwiched with binding. Some of the fiber purfling is quite flexible.

Less trouble would be to make or buy some wider binding strips, using your original plan.

If you glue anything in next to your binding, make it contrasting, or it will look like a 'patch job'.

Remember the old adage: "Pros know how to hide their mistakes better than beginners."

Cheers
John

Add side purfling lines.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

John

Ok got it. I don't usually let the braces go all the way through the sides, stopping them short in pockets in the linings. Side purfling would be the way to go.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I should have mentioned that my banding is curly maple/B/W/B so i
already have side purfing. I'm toying with the idea of sticking a strip of
ebony on to make up the height.

john

John,

How tall is your maple binding with the bwb? Or put it another way, if you were to route out the binding channel to get rid of the braces and have a continuous side line all around how tall a binding/side purfling strip would you need? I have some tall maple with bwb binding that might work for you.

The ebony would look bitty I think. Another alternative would be to chisel out the brace ends and glue some small Rosewood pieces in from side/back offcuts matching the grain/colour as best you can. Make them so that they stick up slightly into the binding channel, when the glue is dry scrape them flush with the sides and then re-route the binding channel over them to make them flush. This will look much better than dust/glue fill and as the wood is a dark one they should be pretty invisible.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave, the binding channel have is 6mm. The biggest gap is about 3mm
so i need 9mm. 10mm to be on the safe side.

Best wishes,

John.

Great job, glad you like the Makita, I'm very impressed with your dedication in the snow.

I think 3mm is too wide for side purfling alone to cover and look right, I'd use a wider binding and then a narrow purfling. Save the stuff you've got for the next guitar. A contrasting purfling may look too much at 8-9mm so I'd do it in a dark wood Ebony or rosewood with just a narrow BWB purfling.

If you call David Dyke I'm sure he'll sort you out with wider bindings. If not PM me I'm sure I've got some rosewood I can cut for you.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

By the way, like Dave I only inlet my braces into the linings not the sides themselves.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

John,

The maple bwb binding I have is 8.4mm deep and 2.2mm wide, so this might not be deep enough for you. In which case it's either fill the bracing gaps with Rosewood or get some new deeper binding.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Thanks for checking Dave, I'll see what i can do with what i have here and
post my progress.

best,

john.

Hesh - John's picture about 1/2 way down shows the problem.
He let the braces all the way through the sides, and then the binding channel isn't tall enough to cover the ends.

Wider bindings, definitely.

Jim

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I'm really impressed, great work and dedication, you are one person who learns quick and this guitar will be a canon! Love that rosette and wood combo!