Official Luthiers Forum!

i is interesting, hesh, that you look at 1/8" as a mx sadl]dle height whereas i consider it a minimum. any less than that and the break angle is too low for my taste.

and the .410 bridge is thicker than i would aim for, i.e., 3/8" or .375.

on older martins you will see a range of bridge heights as a result of maritn's assembly process. they would fit the neck, then select from a range of bridge thicknesses to suit the neckset.

Thanks to All once more!

Well, Hesh my man, “A picture is worth a thousand words” great pics there!
Isn’t this a fantastic way to exchange info.
And, hey I’d sure like to hear “Purple haze” played on an acoustic guitar!
Oh! BTW, you really got some lovely cheeks!

So, now that we’ve got the battle of the posted pics going, I BELIEVE I SEE THE LIGHT!!!
Seems the only difference between your set up and StewMac’s is 1/16" at the bridge.

I’m gonna be studying these posts a little more before I get to my next post.

I know you all some questions, and I’d like to answer them. But, first I got to do some math.

But, before that, I will need to decide on what type of action I should shoot for.

Did anyone read in my last post what StewMac advises for measurements between strings and
frets?

Does anyone have a preference for action that would suit most players?

Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Fair Dinkum Guys,,,,,,,,,

First of all we have Hesh saying he wants 1/16 " to 3/32 " off the top of the bridge with an unfretted neck.
This gives him a 3/16" type saddle


Next we have Michael who aims for flush with the top of the bridge with a fretted fretboard . A different clearance measurement alltogether , yet still gets a 3/16" saddle.

Then we have John hall ,who says they are both dead on with their measurements . ( how can that be ??????)
John also says he aims for 1/16 " above ,,,,,,,,, ??
Is this with frets on the fretboard or not ??

Hesh then posts his pics of having 1/16 " clearance on a fretted fretboard , but would have liked a bit more.

There have been other threads on this topic in the past which were just as confusing

Thanks John , Hesh and Michael , I know you are trying to help out and it really is appreciated , but can you see the confusion it has caused ?

Could you guys try again please , and lets just say we are after a medium action of say 2.5 mm ( .1 " ) 6th string above the 12th fret , and have a little extra saddle showing for future lowering , once it settles in.      3/16 " sounds good .

Thanks to you guys for taking the time and trouble to assist.     

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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in all the posts offering their solutions i think i am the only poster who specified the thickness of bridge they are talking about.

hesh at one point says he wants a max of 1/8" of saddle, whilst elsewhere saying he is aiming for the same thing i am, i.e., min 1/8" - max 1/4".

until you say what bridge thickness you are talking about any mention of saddle height is utter meaningless because it is not going to say anything about string height above the top nor above the fb.

the measurements i gave result in a string height above the top of 1/2" - 9/16". above the 12th fret, 3/16 at the saddle works out to 6/64". the arching of the saddle allows the treble e to be lower. this is just simple mathematics.

desired action height is a very personal thing. measure the action on some guitars you like to play and go from there.

on acoustics about the lowest i recommend setting action is e = 2.5/64" and E 3.5/64". this is for subtle fingerstyle players. heavy strummers obviously require higher. the degree of relief incorporated in the neck must also be taken into account.

iirc dan erlewine quotes martin's factory standard set up as 4/64" and 6/64"at the 12th and .016"and .024" at the 1st.

Thanks a heap Hesh, Michael and Terry. Yes I can see why the clearance would differ depending on the soundboard and it's bracing etc .

I'm doing a neck set at the moment,,,,,,,,(can you tell ? ) . Trouble is it's a twelve . I figure I better leave a little more clearance , but what do you guys reckon ?

Sorry Robert, I don't mean to hijack here , but I think we are still on the thread subject .


                           Lawrence of Australia

Hey I think I like that too Hesh Rod True thought of it first

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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kiwi craig, what clearance are you referring to, and why do you think you need more of it?

Thanks for your response Michael.

I am referring to the clearance over the bridge (11/32) from a straight line on top of the fretted neck. I thought a 1/16 " may be enough , but thinking about the increased pull of another six strings , it may pull the top up a,little more ? I know it's not double the pull , but it's quite a bit extra .

Regards, Lawrence of Australia

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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i you go to one of the string tension calculators you will find that the tension difference between a set of 6 mediums is little different than a set of 12 lights.

i can't recall the difference offhand but it is not much.

O Great Laurence of Australia!!!

No apologies are needed from one who’s Honor, Integrity, and Lutherie Ability
are known to the world through out!

OK. Just kidding around a little bit!

Kiwi Craig, I noticed the same discrepancies as you did when comparing the posts.
I kinda figured it would work it self out though.
And, I was getting the gist of what everyone was trying to say.
However, you were absolutely correct to bring it up.
I believe that this particular step in guitar building should be very precise.

As for action. Well, this one appears (to me) to be up for grabs!
So, considering the fact, that this is my first, I think the safest way to deal with this,
is to just shoot for a little lower than medium action. (What ever medium action is, that is)
I’ve been delving into this action thing, because I wanted to be familiar with what would be
considered the norms for Low, Medium, and High.
Seems my suspicions were right, action is a personal preference.

Well, now its time for me to go the work shop, and get something done!

I will make the adjustments to the neck, and get her set to the correct angle, and gap allowances
that will work with MY bridge. I don’t know what FLOSSING is, but, I’m sure I’ll find out.
Perhaps, if anyone feels up to it, chime in and elaborate.

I have a bolt on neck, and plan to use Tim McKnight’s method for fretting.
One of my reasons for this, is that I purchased a “Saddlematic” from StewMac.
I’m sure someone here is familiar with this tool. I don’t know how to post a link, but if you go to
stewmac.com, you’ll find the info. There.
For me, it seemed the perfect way to position the bridge almost flawlessly.
You just have to set the neck and fretboard first. At least, that’s how it appears to me.

OK folks, I’m going to work on this here geetar now!

I’ll post some pics when I get a little further on, and be checking back to this thread.

Thanks to All, for your diligence in explaining the techniques for neck & fretboard setting!

Robert, Builder of Ellijay!



“The method is not as important as the results”

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Thanks Hesh,

I had a feeling that’s what flossing was!

So, Hi Ho, Hi Ho, its off to the shed I go!!!

BTW, still waiting for you to respond on the “Favorite Painting” thread about the secret behind the Mona Lisa!

See Ya!

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

    To make this simple . Martin uses a .410 max bridge at present. In older days they did go as high as .500. When setting necks , they will sand a bridge down to make the saddle height .125
   As for saddle height I look at .125 as top of what I like. .150 is as high as I will go. This is the height about the bridge not the total of the saddle.
    The important thing is to maintain the 1/2 inch about the top so the total height of the saddle and brisge is .500
    The fretboard without frets should just skim the top of the bridge. This is the specs that martin uses. I like to use the specs off old martins as I am a martin fan but Gibson did go higher so there is no one perfect answer here it is styles.
   If you are looking for martinish guitars the specs I posted should get you there but remember there is allways more than 1 way.
    I don't like to see too much saddle out of the bridge for 2 reasons ,
1 the forces can turn the saddle
2 the extra stress on the bridge can cause it to split
   Just things I learned
john hall
blues creek guitars

Since I fret after the neck and bridge are on the finished guitar, I put in a couple of pieces of fretwire, barbs filed off, at the 1st and 14th fret. the distance from the straight edge is anything from 1/64th to 1/16th. That will give me a saddle height between .150 and .125.

Hi John,
Many thanks for that clarification and also a huge thanks for all your assistance in past threads . Your experience is greatly appreciated .

Would you leave a little more clearance over the bridge with a twelve string ?

Regards,Lawrence of Australia

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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