Official Luthiers Forum!

G'day all - I have been asked by bob_connor to come on to the forums and see if there were any questions I could answer re our Hard Shellac.

I actually sent a very long reply on a heap of questions to j.Brown last week.

Here are a few bits from that email. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing his email with you all. My answers and comments are in maroon and red

Thanks for taking the time to post Neil.

I seen the results of your Hard Shellac on Paul Burn's beautiful guitar some time back and from that moment, as I live in Aussie to, I decided that I to would use Ubeaut's Hard Shellac on my guitar when the time comes. So you should be receiving an order from me in the not too distant future, looking forward to doing business with you.

Cheers

Kim

Neil...Thanks so much for your comprehensive response. While I am impressed with the information you have provided, I would still like to see more testing in the areas of repairability as compared to standard shellac and its performance under temperature extremes compared to the standard finishes for musical instruments. If I were French Polishing a piece of furniture, I would use it without hesitation.

I believe it's up to the builders to make up their own minds based on their level of concern with our unique issues. For those who have ordered the product, is there any testing planned?

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ,
Just got mine this morning, and will be handing some over to Edward Dick to do extensive tests on it. He said he will apply it on several types of wood and let it sit for 20 days in a warm room. After this, he plans to put it out in the freezing cold for a while(not sure how long) and see if it crazes. He will also try the opposite extreme this summer. He will also test for repairability since he is a repair person. He has french polished hundreds of instruments, so he is very intimate with shellac as a finish. I'll give a full report when I hear back. In the mean time, I'm just finishing up a concert uke and already have 2 coats of z-poxy on it. I will brush this hard shellac on it with a foam brush in about 2 months. So I'll give an update on that too.

Thanks Neil for the great reply. You are one funny guy! Please start importing this stuff to the US, we need good products like this. Even if it fails miserably on a guitar, I'm sure woodworkers would love to have this stuff available for furniture.

Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Great news, Tracy! Looking forward to the results. One thing...if he could use thin stock that includes QS spruce as well as IRW and other species for the environmental testing, I think that would be appropriate to our requirements.

Thanks, my friend!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Good, I'm glad this thread got bumped, I was going to bump it myself today. I didn't mean to abandon it but I've had a bad couple of weeks with illness, then injury, and then blood poisoning. You wouldn't beleive it so I'm not gonna tell ya Sometimes ya just gotta laugh (or end up crying)

As for repairability (that a word?) I sprayed the hard shellac on my guitar, then let it cure for a month or six weeks. Once it cured I had to level the finish 'cause I didn't have my gun set up right (new gun and not enough hard shellac to waste any setting up the gun for it) So I got a few sags and runs. Anyway, I happened to rub through the finish in a couple of places during the levelling. I simply FP'd the small areas where I'd gone through to the wood, buffed, and now I can't find those places. Invisible repair. How repairable this stuff would be after a few years is anyone's guess.

Oh, and french polishing with this stuff was exactly the same as with regular shellac, you couldn't tell them apart, though I've only FP'd one guitar with the normal stuff and one guitar with hard shellac, so take that for what it's worth. I only quit FP'ing the second guitar and sprayed it 'cause I got an air compressor for father's day and I got impatient wanting to play my new guitar rather than spend my spare time french polishing the bloody thing.

Paul, can you please post some more images of that lovely Tassi Blackwood guitar that you finished with hard shellac

Cheers

Kim

Sorry Kim, it keeps giving me an error msg when I try to upload an image.

And I too really appreciate your wit - you sound like a very cool guy. Yep that's me real cool older dude.  Like the wit, you'd love my book "A Polishers Handbook"

Regarding the ingredients of UHS is there any thing potentially harmful to me using traditional FP methods that is not in say a dewaxed shellac alcohol mix? Not if you don't drink it. Pure alcohol isn't too good for your health and the shellac will bind you up something awful.  Could be a problem with the addition of an elasticizer or an extender like nbutanol, which slows the flash time and will help with levelling if applying the shellac by brush. (hope this makes sense)

Cheers - Neil

Penn State isn't making it easy to order a bottle. There isn't any mention of having Ubeaut available on their webside and the product key that J. Brown gave doesn't work either. If this is a test run, they really aren't being fair to Neil. How are they supposed to gauge how well this is going to sell if they don't advertise it?

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Aoibeann

Hey Neil, ever thought about building a guitar?

Then we could have a resident finishing expert

What's that about some Arab bloke and a mountain?? Oh never mind. Here is a link to the thread where Paul posted some pictures of HIS GUITAR which was finished using Ubeauts Hard Shellac.

Cheers

Kim

Lillian - Penn State only have 8 dozen bottles, and it isn't one of their  specialty lines (woodturning) so I doubt they will put it on their web site any time in the near future. I sent it to them without them requesting it. Figured the first thing to do was get it into the country and to somewhere that people could contact. Maybe if the demand is there, they will place an order for more. Possibly in 5 liters as well as the 500ml bottles. In the mean time, may I suggest you use their phone number to order. Customer Svc & Orders Toll-Free: 800 377-7297

Paul - I already have a beautiful old Arnold Hoyer guitar that I found at the tip and repaired some 20 years ago. Tried to learn to play if for a while but figured my woodcarvers hands weren't meant to play a guitar or any sort of other musical instrument apart from bongos and maybe marimbas. (probably not really classed as musical instruments by most luthiers)

Cheers - Neil

[QUOTE=PaulB] I've had a bad couple of weeks with illness, then injury, and then blood poisoning. You wouldn't beleive it so I'm not gonna tell ya Sometimes ya just gotta laugh (or end up crying)

[/QUOTE]

Paul,

Sounds like youre having a really bad run with your health. Hope you're on the mend mate.

Cheers Martin

Hi and welcome Neil . I used your product on my guitar , finished over a year ago .

I haven't had to repair the finish as yet , so can't comment on repairability . I reckon it should be O.K.

The bottom line is that it's holding up perfectly .It has copped the odd small scratch and such , but I figure that to be normal on any instrument .

I live in the Northern Tableland where winter is fairly cool. About minus 10 dgree C. The guitar has had a few cool night being left in the workshop and hasn't affected the finish.

Thanks Neil for a great product

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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Neil- You don't have to be able to play like Tommy Emmanuel to build 'em. Lotsa fun even if you're a crap player like me.

Kim- Sorry buddy, first day back in the saddle after a couple weeks flat on my back, been kinda busy. Thanks for the nice words about my latest axe, and for posting that link, the mountain must come to mohommad, today at least I'm afraid. Thanks mate, I appreciate it.

Martin- You wouldn't beleive the sh** I've been through over the last coulple weeks. I'm well on the mend and actually feel normal again. No thanks to Doc death down at the local medical center. Thanks for your concern.

Hayseed- I'll resume our usual pm banter just as soon as I get a spare moment to concentrate. Probably tomorrow...ASAP in any case

Thanks guys

Paul

Neil,
Anybody in Canada distributing it yet. It is difficult to get volatile finishes shipped from the U.S.

Not at the moment Ron but talk to Lee Valley they may get some in with next shipment but that could be a fair while as their last one leaves Melbourne tomorrow.

Ben held up for 6 weeks because none of the shipping lines want to go there at the moment, something like 6 weeks delay to get into port due to ice. Least that's the story they gave me.

Cheers - Neil