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Hello. I have Rodrigues/Cervantes classical guitar. I bought it in 2000. I am not sure if there was a slow change of the position of strings with respect to the neck over the years, but now it is very obvious that E-1 string is almost 1/4 inch from the edge of the neck, while E-6 is almost at the edge of the neck, and can easily slip from the neck if not pressed perpendicularly to the neck. I wonder if this could be fixed? I guess removing the bridge to adjust its position would damage guitar? The only other thing I can think of is to punch new hole in the saddle of the bridge so that all 6 strings are symetrically distributed accross the width of the neck. Is that doable? And how much it could cost?

Also, if tuning is not perfect, is it possible to fix that and make it tune perfectly? Re-fretting? Or something more?

I like my guitar, it has nice sound, it is pretty loud, but I would like to move E-6 string off the edge of the neck, and E-1 toward the other edge of the neck, and eventually to improve tuning.

I would appreciate if somebody can comment on this.

Thanks,
Branislav

Thank you for the answer.

The difference is the greatest around 12th fret, i.e. at that end of the neck toward the center of the guitar body. I indeed seems that the neck tilted, rather than shifted parallel to itself.

Do you know any place in Wahsington DC area where I could take my guitar for repair? Of course, if repair does not cost more than a new guitar. I paid this one $1,300 in 2000, bought it from GSP store in San Francisco. Does it make sense to send the guitar back to them for repair? It wa snot supposed to have shifting neck! :-)

Thanks,
Branislav


[QUOTE=highdrawlicks]At what point is the difference between the strings from the edge of the fretboard greatest? If it's around the 12th fret, the neck has definitely shifted. If it's at the nut, then the nut has slid sideways. That would be pretty obvious as the nut would be hanging over the side of the neck about 1/8" on the bass side and inset from the edge of the neck an equal amount on the treble side.



It sounds as if the entire neck has shifted laterally. To fix it right, you're looking at a neck reset, which is generally more involved for the traditional spanish heel than with, say a bolt-on steel string neck or even (I'd wager) a dovetail joint.

[/QUOTE]

If the offset is on one side of the fretboard at the 12 fret why not lift the bridge and move it laterally a bit. Worth a try and alot easier than a neck reset.

[QUOTE=Branislav] I paid this one $1,300 in 2000, bought it from GSP store in San Francisco. Does it make sense to send the guitar back to them for repair? It wa snot supposed to have shifting neck![/QUOTE]

I would at least raise the issue with GSP. Was the guitar new? What sort of explicit extended warrantee does it carry?

If the neck has a Spanish heel, a reset is a major pain. The back has to be totally or partially removed. If it has a set neck (which you do see occasionally on nylon string guitars) then the joint may just have separated, and a reset may not be too bad.

Does everything still seem attached on the outside? Fingerboard still firmly attached to the top? There is a pretty good lever arm tending to hold the neck straight if the fingerboard joint is still good - it's hard to see how you would get too much rotation without obvious distortion to the top.

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

To change lateral position of the neck on a classical built using the Spanish method is going to involve more than a simple neck reset. Changing the neck rake angle involves adjustment to the Spanish heel while adjusting the lateral position of the neck cant really be achieved without separation of the top from the neck....some serious surgery required here.

I would still look at repositioning the bridge as a possible cure for the problem.

I would recommend not repositioning the bridge, if possible. A repairman skilled in plugging and redriling the holes can do this rather inexpensively, if the bridge position is the problem and if there is enough room on the tie block. My old Kohno 30 had the bridge glued on a little off center, and I recently had that plugged and redrilled. The suggestion to provide a grooved saddle would also work, but a repairman would probably charge just as much for that as for redrilling the tie block.   As an aside, some classical players prefer more space on the treble side than the bass, although not as severe as described by Branislav. I second the comment to check with the seller first, and also to try to avoid resetting the neck.

Branislav, my friend, you've got to take this to an experienced repair person who can examine it "in the flesh," so to speak. It's the only way to find out what's really wrong here. It sounds to me like the Spanish heel, inside the guitar, has shifted. Since it's a continuation of the neck, the whole thing moved. If this is the case, it might be reparable without something as drastic as removing the top. The only way to know, though, is through a "hands on" inspection by a professional. Good luck!

it certainly sounds as if the neck joint has come adrift.

has it been subjected to any unusual heat, or has it been in a situation where it may have suffered an impact that might have caused the neck joint to come loose? in any event, unless it is one of the relatively uncommon classicals which has a set neck, the remedy will not be a simple one and you should get it looked at by a reputable repair tech.

and the warrantee issue should be investigated as well.

oh for our edit buttons....

i should have mentioned that many of the members here do repairs. you might wish to post your area of residence and invite expressions of interest.

Thank you all for replying! This is woderful forum - I don't feel alone anymore in thinking about this!

I will measure precisely the difference betwen the E-1 and E-6 distances from the neck edge and I hope this may be that prefrence of some classical guitarists which somebody mentioned, although I don't see the reason for it. I would still prefer to move E-6 a milimeter farther from the edge.

I also thought of redrilling, so I am happy with that possibility.

I made pictures of my neck and will definitely contact the seller - GSP store in San Francisco. I think there was no warranty. Guitar was almost new - it had one scartch behind the saddle, so it seems it was maybe used for a short time. A friend of mine (a renounced guitarist and composer from San Francisco) bought it for me. I am waiting to see his opinion about pictures I sent him. Maybe I exeggerate a bit in describing the problem, but it looks to me wrong positioning of strings.

Branislav

[QUOTE=Bill Bergman]I would recommend not repositioning the bridge, if possible. A repairman skilled in plugging and redriling the holes can do this rather inexpensively, if the bridge position is the problem and if there is enough room on the tie block. My old Kohno 30 had the bridge glued on a little off center, and I recently had that plugged and redrilled. The suggestion to provide a grooved saddle would also work, but a repairman would probably charge just as much for that as for redrilling the tie block.   As an aside, some classical players prefer more space on the treble side than the bass, although not as severe as described by Branislav. I second the comment to check with the seller first, and also to try to avoid resetting the neck.[/QUOTE]

No it was not! I have a cult of caring for a classical guitar. Nobody can even touch it! :-) The more I think the more it seems to me that it was like that from the beginning....

I would definitely like a professional builder to look at it, but I don't know who is trustworthy in my area - I live in Falls Church, Virginia, close to Washington D.C. I would appreciate your help in connecting me to somebody in the area - maybe some of the members of this forum.

I like the idea of re-drilling, since there are NO other deformations that I would expect if neck really shifted. But I am not a rofessional, I am maybe missing to notice something.

Branislav

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael]it certainly sounds as if the neck joint has come adrift.



has it been subjected to any unusual heat, or has it been in a situation where it may have suffered an impact that might have caused the neck joint to come loose? in any event, unless it is one of the relatively uncommon classicals which has a set neck, the remedy will not be a simple one and you should get it looked at by a reputable repair tech.



and the warrantee issue should be investigated as well.[/QUOTE]

If I get lucky to find some trustworthy guitar repair man, I would like to check two other things: 1) My fretts seem to me thicker than on some other guitars I've seen in the stores. Is that  OK or not, I don't know.
2) Guitar is hard, if not impossible to tune perfectly well. I tune it in one position and it is slightly out of tune in another. I wonder if this could be fixed too - be re-fretting?

Thanks for all your comments,
Branislav

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael]oh for our edit buttons....



i should have mentioned that many of the members here do repairs. you might wish to post your area of residence and invite expressions of interest.[/QUOTE]

Branislav,

Guitars are, by nature, impossible to tune perfectly in every position. A piano, for instance, has a separate string, or course of strings, for every note--88 notes, 88 strings (courses). A guitar, on the other hand, has approximately 180 notes available, on only 6 strings. Some of those notes have to be a bit out of tune with the others. A properly built and set-up guitar should play acceptably in tune, though.

That being said, if your neck is not in alignment, you'll never be able to make it sound good. You have to find out for certain what the problem is.

Carlton, I agree with what you said 100%. It is a matter of acceptability. I will see when I find an expert repair person.

Thanks,
Branislav

[QUOTE=CarltonM]Branislav,



Guitars are, by nature, impossible to tune perfectly in every position. A piano, for instance, has a separate string, or course of strings, for every note--88 notes, 88 strings (courses). A guitar, on the other hand, has approximately 180 notes available, on only 6 strings. Some of those notes have to be a bit out of tune with the others. A properly built and set-up guitar should play acceptably in tune, though.



That being said, if your neck is not in alignment, you'll never be able to make it sound good. You have to find out for certain what the problem is.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like theres something seriously wrong with this guitar. Im just trying to picture what exactly has to come loose for the neck to undergo such a huge lateral offset. The neck is fixed in two places....onto the soundboard and also to the back via the Spanish foot. There is also a certain amount of support from the sides also. It should be easy enough to check out if the Spanish foot has come unglued by peering into the soundhole and trying to run a feeler guage between the foot and the back. Checking to see if the soundboard/neck joint has come undone is a bit more difficult.

An intriguing problem indeed.

Thick frets are preferred by some. For example, Zuris Yeltins in San Diego, who does the work on the Romeros family guitars, puts on very large frets. There may be a number of reasons for this. As a result, the fingers do not press firmly onto the fingerboard, and the high e-sting tend to "skate" off the fingerboard if you pull sideways. That is the reason that he adjusts the string spacing to leave more room on the treble side.

Bill, thank you for this piece of information.

Now, I will await if somebody can direct me to a trustworthy guitar repair man in Washington DC metropolitan area (Northern Virginia + Maryland).

Thanks,
Branislav

[QUOTE=Bill Bergman]Thick frets are preferred by some. For example, Zuris Yeltins in San Diego, who does the work on the Romeros family guitars, puts on very large frets. There may be a number of reasons for this. As a result, the fingers do not press firmly onto the fingerboard, and the high e-sting tend to "skate" off the fingerboard if you pull sideways. That is the reason that he adjusts the string spacing to leave more room on the treble side. [/QUOTE]

I suppose, there is no way that I can attach pictures of my guitar neck and strings on this forum????

Branislav

Branislav,
Here is a web site for the Washington DC classical guitar society. They could probably give you the name of a local repair person.

http://www.dcguitar.org/wgs/

Branislav, The Guitar Salon in NY City recommends the following for a repairman in your area:

Doug Ching in Chester, Va. or look up GFA listings of builders.