Official Luthiers Forum!

My Porter Cable 333 random orbital sander I think has had it after 10 years of use. Any recomendations on what to replace it with. I like the 333 but getting parts is a pain.

Stick with Porter Cable.

Al

I have two DeWalt's that have given me very good service. I am a fan of PC tools but the DeWalt is just lighter weight.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I've been through a couple dewalts, a pc and now have a bosch. I like the the bosch better then the pc or dewalts, but it doesn't get much use since the I invested in a festool.

Hi Tim.

I use two one is a PC SpeedBloc 1/4 sheet sander square base. The other is a six inch ROS PC, fairly large, like one Mario uses. I paid 85 for the Speed Bloc, 110 for the six inch ROS PC. I bought a second six inch when I found them on discount rack new for 45 bucks. I nearly bought all four, but resisted.

I recommend the five inch ROS over the six though, papers are more readily available locally. Body shops seem to use fives......

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Stay away from Rye-O-Beeee   

to me the two most important factors are the comfort in the hand and the orbit size. among the commonly available machines the pc 333 wins for me on both counts. the variable speed modle is a worthwhile extra.

if you have enough compressor capacity the dynabrades are top notch and come in just about whatever configuration you might want.

I bought a pc 334 and after an hour went back to my walmart bought
quantum (whoever makes them) because even with 40 grit the pc wouldn't
touch the bubinga I was working on. I even tried it on poplar and didn't
have any luck on it either.

I have used, over the last 30 years or so, about 6 different brands of orbital sanders.

Nothing I have used compares to the BOSCH.

It takes wood down in hurry if you want it to.

Or, slap some 220 grit on it, and with a light touch you will get a very smooth finish!

I still like to go over what ever I’m doing with a little hand sanding making sure I run with the grain.
It helps to get rid of the swirls. But, it has been my experience that, I get less swirls with the BOSCH.

Hope this helps

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

This is the speed bloc and is a great tool. 90 at Amazon. I saw one in the hands of a luthier at Santa Cruz. I've owned mine, going strong after 28 years. It does need another new pad for $4. It has an orbit speed of around 12,000, so no little circles like you may see with cheaper and slower sanders.

Here is my other one, and it's great but seems to have less control, due to it's size relative to the guitar.



Again, I recommend the five over the six inch in this type.

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Blue or Green Bosch, out of curiosity?

I'm considering a Makita; lightweight, compact, on-handed operation, gotta be better than my cheapie Black and Decker multisander.

If you've got the air, I've preferred air-powered since the first time I've used one. I use a Mirka Bulldog 3.5" but it's a little pricey. Less expensive air sanders still do a great job and are nearly all high-speed (12000 RPM)

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

I know many brands are mentioned, but if you haven't looked at Festool
products, you should. I have a Festool ROS and it is the best quality tool I
have in the shop. Their products are outstanding. They are a bit expensive,
but you get what you pay for. Also, it hooks up to the dust collector and
you have NO dust with the ROS.

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

I've got a blue Bosch 3107 DVS. It's heavy(2.2 kg) and vibrates the hand (a lot-look up 'white hand syndrome'). You certainly couldn't use it one-handed when doing guitar sides, for example. Not recommended. I use it on boats and furniture but wouldn't let it near an instrument.
Like most hook/loop sanders the Bosch pads are short-lived and are expensive to replace.

My favourite ROS is a DeWalt DW420 which uses PSA discs (stick-on). Easily manageable with one hand (1.1 kg)and the pad edge is soft enough so that it can push into concave areas to some extent. The disadvantage is that with no disk holes you cannot organize a dust collection system.

DeWalt also make a SpeedBloc knockoff (DW411?) which seems to work well. One nice feature is that it comes with a 'perforator' to punch holes in the paper (after ounting) so you can use a dust extraction system- it comes with a fabric bag which does collect some dust.

BTW, the coarse(40 or even 60 grit) disks for the ROS sanders aren't as effective as you might think. My theory is that there isn't enough movement on the pad to get those big chunks of abrasive working very effectively. You learn lots when sanding the teak deck on a 35-foot boat!

Also, I find that I run my variable speed sanders 'wide open' most of the time, so I wouldn't pay extra for a variable speed model.

I'd really rather have a good compressor and use air tools. They're much lighter and more effective. If you are just 'starting out' and setting up a shop it would be worth investigating, since a good (10cfm@90psi ??) compressor is not terribly expensive.

John

I have a dewalt and I love it, my only complaint is that the on-off button is under a rubber protector.

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=LanceK] I have a dewalt and I love it, my only complaint is that the on-off button is under a rubber protector. [/QUOTE]
Lance-
I agree! I've been tempted to cut that DW rubber shield off, but I'm sure I'd drip glue in there as soon as I did it. I've got three DW ROS plus the SpeedBlock knockoff and I like them all.

However, you haven't experienced true joy till you try to wrestle with the Bosch 'trigger and button' system- you have to crank really hard on the trigger to engage-and disengage- the button. Lotsa fun holding the sander up in the air while you squeeze the trigger hard enough to turn the thing off. Gotta get out the 'Charles Atlas grip developer' machine, I guess.

Cheers

John

OK! OK! I’ll admit it. The Bosch is a real bear of a tool. It’s heavy, and it vibrates the heck out of hand.
I guess I’ve just gotten used it. I use it for just about everything I do.

But, Hey! I’m open minded.

I never heard of a festool, but, I’d be interested in learning more about it.

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

And now for something completely different.

If you have a good air compressor, consider a good Dynabrade orbital sander. You can pick them up for a reasonable price on e-bay. Here are the advantages:

(1) They are far smoother than motorized sanders. Think about it this way. Let's say you are going to build a motorized sander to sell at a price point of $250 (a pretty nice motorized sander). Some of that has to go to profit, advertising, etc., but let's say you are going to invest $80 of that to actually build a really good sander. A good chunk of that money will have to go to the motor. But now let's say you are going to build a pneumatic sander at the same price point. You still have $80 to put into building the sander. You can invest far more money in the housing, bearing components, etc. because you don't have to spend any money building (or providing warranty service on) a motor. As a result, pneumatic sanders tend to have far smoother operation than orbital sanders at a given price point.

(2) They last forever. No motor or electrical parts to wear out. And, as discussed in item 1 above, the manufacturer can put more money into the moving parts because it doesn't have to build a motor, so the moving parts are generally far more durable at a given price piont. (These sanders are engineered to be used eight hours a day, every day at auto-body shops.)

(3) They can be had for super cheap on e-bay. Because they last forever, there are lots of them out there available, and you can buy a used one with confidence that it will work well for as long as you live.

(4) AND FOR LUTHIERS, HERE'S THE REAL KICKER: YOU CAN WET-SAND WITH THEM!!! Rational people wouldn't dare wet-sand a guitar with a motorized sander, because power tools and water aren't a good combination. Also, sometimes I prefer to wet-sand with mineral spirits, so things could go boom. But with a pneumatic sander, there's no electricity, no sparks, no problems.

There are a couple downsides to pneumatic sanders. They aren't "random." So when you are done sanding, you may have little circles to get rid of with a sanding block. But I find that I have to do this anyway even after using an ROS, because the sanding scratches aren't all aligned with the grain no matter how random it is.

The other downside is that you have to have a strong compressor to keep the sander going.

I have a monster-sized Ridgid ROS and a DeWalt sander that I also use, but the Dynabrade is a very nice option.

My Dewalt DW421 went to pieces in a number of ways within 2 years. Between that and a router with a bad switch, I've decided to stay away from Dewalt. I now own a Porter Cable 343VS, and feel like it's a much better tool. I also like the variable speed option.

_________________
Kent

Facebook Page

I really like my Bosch 1295 variable speed ROS, but I'd get a Festool in an instant if I could justify the cost for my needs.

_________________
now known around here as Pat Foster
_________________
http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Finewoodworking - July/August 2006 had a review of ROS. The Bosch 1295DVS (Around $75) received top ratings. I own both the 5" and 6" Bosch ROS and both are very good sanders. I have also used the Porter Cable 5" and prefer the Bosch. I know that those that own Festool really seem to like the tools. I would hightly recommend that whatever tool you buy has variable speed. If your budget can swing Festool and I am sure you will be happy but for much less money Bosch should serve you well.

_________________
Brad
Avon, OH

As others have mentioned, if you want to go air powered, Dynabrade is the way to go. Otherwise, Festool is #1 hands down. The PC units are also great, but the Festool is in another class. I have the Bosch 5", and I like it, but would prefer the Festool like Hesh's.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."