Official Luthiers Forum!

It's about time I started making use of this great resource....

As you may know, I design and build a "crossover" or "hybrid" instrument, and have always considered the amplifier to be part of the guitar...the ugly half, if you will....We've already done two tube amp prototypes and the third is being put together right now. But for the past couple of years I've been using the lowliest of the basic all tube circuits, the Fender Pro Jr. to gig with, and as a test bed for the guitar designs.   

So lately I've been playing with a modified pup system in the new body shape electroCoustic. Tonight I did a couple of quick clips...one direct into the DAW, the other into my modded Fender Pro Jr. I switched the EQ out on the recorder, and used the same reverb for both trax. The amp was miked using a large diaphragm condenser, on the omni pattern, at about six inches in front of the edge of the whizzer cone on the Em Beta12LT speaker.

Let me know which one you like better....there's something about the amp that I like much better, and it's not frequency response or harmonic distortion content....how would you describe the difference?


direct
http://www.electrocoustic.com/workdtl/direct.mp3

miked amp
http://www.electrocoustic.com/workdtl/amp.mp3

I'm probably a poor judge, but the amp version is brighter, crisper, and seems to have better separation. It sounds less like an amplified guitar.

Dave, I am not absolutely sure, but I think I like the amped version better too.

For some reason it just sounds cleaner and the notes are more defined to my ears. My ears aren't that great so you better wait till you hear from others though.

Nice pickin!

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

[QUOTE=Dave Rector] Nice pickin![/QUOTE]

Yeah, that too...    

I agree the amp version sounds better to me too. Not to say that the direct version doesn't sound good. I like that too but amp is brighter clearer where the direct is more mellow to my ears.

_________________
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I'll have to agree with you and others that I like the amped sound better. Much cleaner. Seamed to have better seperation between the notes. The direct version sounded almost muddy and the seperation got lost a bit.
My $.02

Dave,

I have to agree with everyone else. The 2nd clip sounded cleaner. More bright, more separation.

Great playing, is that a tune you wrote?

Jeff

PS - I never did get around to telling you on the other thread that I liked your guitar!

[QUOTE=Jeff Doty] is that a tune you wrote?

Jeff[/QUOTE]

It's supposed to be my rendition of "Ghost Riders"...I guess I need to work on it some to make it more recognizable.....

Opps, I'm sorry, I thought this was a post from Wis.
Amped

[QUOTE=Dave251] [QUOTE=Jeff Doty] is that a tune you wrote?

Jeff[/QUOTE]

It's supposed to be my rendition of "Ghost Riders"...I guess I need to work on it some to make it more recognizable..... [/QUOTE]

Dave,

Yes, yes, I hear it now. And believe me, it is my ear, not your playing!

Jeff

Dave, the amped version sounds brighter and cleaner to me. I agree with Paul, the direct version sounds muddy and not clear.

_________________
Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Dave,

The amp version definitely has much better seperation throughout the different registers, tonal clarity, and balance. I think there is a wider range of tonal colors available from the second clip. Your first clip sounds constrained and limited by the electronics. I think your options for available music is wider using the second setup.

Cheers!

John

I vote too for the amped version. Very clean. Good pickin' too! To be honest, although the direct version sounded good, it was as though there was an impedence mis-match or something causing the slight muddiness. I'd love to hear the same track recorded in stereo with a couple of small condensers (or one big and one small) at slightly different distances from the amp. There are some definite possibilities there.

Just my humble opinion

Steve Brown

And the score thus far, from six different forums across the net:

Total responses: 43


Amp: 25
Direct: 6
Neutral: 12


Analysis: Amp wins, hands down. I'm sure the new amp will perform even better; we'll do another test when it's been burned in good.

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Well of course the point of this "listening test" is to illustrate how tubes can effect "clean" sounds; that is, we all know and accept that tube amps are great for the distortion content they carry, especially when pushed. I hear so many recommendations for SS amps regarding jazz and acoustic guitar use that I wanted to test the assumption a bit.

A simple tube circuit does something to the sound. It's not eq, and probably not harmonic distortion. More than likely it has something to do with phase distortions and harmonic CONTENT during the attack transient. Something our ears(or souls, if you will) can accept as more natural.

On the rare occasion when I perform, I would rather use my humble little Pro Jr. than my "big rig"....a 200 watt PA head into a JBL Eon cab. It just sounds better to me...so if there's room to use a mic in the mixer, and I can get a decent monitor feed, I'll use the Pro Jr. with an SM57.

I would like to understand, and be able to relay that understanding of how a tube circuit effects our psyche; in more than five or six years of study, I've yet to find an explanation that truly makes sense. So I suppose the debate will continue.....Dave25138487.4291319444