Official Luthiers Forum!

When I finish my L-OO, I want to rebuild my mac ebony parlor. I want to
replace the top and build it more in the Somogyi style. I have never liked the
tone of this one. so why not. Also since I don't like the tone, it just sits
lonely and unplayed.....Not fair!!!!!!    This guitar is a parlor 12 fret with
some gorgeous mac ebony. Well I can build a guitar but I don't know how to
fix one.

How to do you take a top off??? Do I need to heat it? Melt Glue? chisel it
off. I don't care if I have to replace the upper kerfing but keeping it intact
would be a benefit. When done, I might attempt my 1st french polish.

Love some advice...Evan are you out there?????????!!!!!!!!!!!

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Andy, I've done it before using my binding jig. Just set the depth to cut the top thickness and make a wide cut to get passed the linings, then use a razor saw to cut the braces at the inlet. Youls havea little clean up to do at the end blocks, but that's not to bad.
This of course assumes you don't really want to keep the top too intact. I was also able to reuse my rosette by carefully cutting it out.
Good luck.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Andy,
What Jim said.
You'll probably need to do the top binding again, so the refinish might be more than just the top. Saving the top kerfing shouldn't be an issue at all.

Do you bolt on or glue your neck and fingerboard extension?

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Check out John Greven's site. If I remember correctly, he has a pretty
slick tutorial on retopping.

Steeve - Bolt on neck with double mortice and tenon

Thanks for all the help

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Sorry I was late Andy! Passover dinner last night, Jim covered it great. Remember this tecnique is also used for removing the guitar from the top .
Let us know how it goes. I have also seen it done with a bowling ball (not joking) but there was no precision involved. I am sure it was a much faster method though.
Evan

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http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

You could try just re-shaping the braces with a small ibex finger plane while the top is still on. It wouldn't be the whole Somogyi bracing style, but it certainly would be a nice opportunity to figure out how shaping braces affects the sound on a guitar thats already together instead of tap tuning/voicing while its off. Then if you don't like it, take a router to it and remove the whole thing.
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

j's suggestion beat me to it. it would be a good learning experience if you have the patience.

routing off the top will usually mean that the top cannot be reused on the instrument. depending on how you treated the ends of your bracing it might be possible to remove the top intact and reuse it. if your bracing was inlet through the lining or not inlet at all this is very doable, though in the latter case quite fiddly. if you used only a partial inlet, more than likely you will not be able to access the end of the brace to loosen it and just routing off the top as suggested by others may be your beat option.

Thanks
This top is too thick, way over braced and Port Orford Cedar. I want to
switch to a thinner spruce top

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Andy,
Are you going to put Lutz on it? I just got some of Shane's Luts. I'm pretty impressed.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Steve
Yep...it is the little guitar you saw at Ervins. A Somogyi style experiment
with a Lutz top.

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Andy, somewhere I saw a write up about replacing a top while leaving the binding intact.  It may have been Alan Carruth on another forum but I'm not at all sure.  The main advantage was not saving the binding but saving refinishing the sides.  That would be even more of an advantage if you plan to french polish.  I believe the method was to use a binding router type setup that indexes against the sides but spaces the bit inboard by the thickness of the binding.  You'ld have to be very careful to keep the router oriented so the bit stays 90 degress to the point of contact of the bearing.  Hard to explain without a picture.  You'ld destroy the top and it would take some time but if you hate finishing as much as I do, it may be worth the trouble!

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

I like to make the new top before removing the old one. Glue up the top blank, put in the rosette, and cut the hole. Remove the fingerbaord and bridge from the guitar. Lay the new top over the old one, and scribe around it exactly on the underside. Trim to this line, and then mark around the edge just far enough in to be inside the binding. Trim to that line. Now you can brace the new top, and do whatever sort of 'tap tuning' or ouija you like to do.

Once that's all done I rout around the edge of the old top well inside the liners. Cut through the braces if you have to, and remove it. It takes some time to clean the top wood down to the liners and block surfaces by hand. Fill in any pockets you need to in the liners, and inlet your top bracing. Then glue in the top.

If you did it right, you have a top that just sits inside the bindings, which you have not touched, and there should be no, or few gaps. The body is in the same shape it was to begin with, so the neck fit should be just right. I cut a channel around the edge, guiding off the binding, and inlay purfling to cover any small gaps.

Now comes the payoff: you don't have to worry about matching or blending the finish around the sides, or finding new bindings to match. All you need to do is finish the top. This is a real time saver on older instruments.   

Alans method os very similar to the method John Greven describes on his web site. It might be worth checking out as it couls save you quite a bit of finish work.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I did what Al suggested only I used a plexiglass template that was easy to make since it is transparent. Just lay the template over the old top, trace where it should be cut, and then after cutting that template out, do some fine fitting with sandpaper and scrapers on the edges to make sure it fits perfectly inside the binding, and perhaps even purfling too. Once made exactly the spruce top can easily be cut out to match the template and fit down inside the old binding. If the edge of the new top falls on a dark line of purfling the fit is more forgiving.

John

Alan, John-
Thanks for the tips.
I'm filing them away for future use.

John

Kent....good to see you posting here!

Cheers,
Greg Gwaltney

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Gwaltney Guitars

Thanks all
I didn't realize it was Kents 1st post!!!! Welcome to the OLF.
For those of who don't know Kent, he make very nice guitars in the Pacific
Northwest. He was also at the recent Somogyi course!!!!! A great addition to
the forum

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com