Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey Folks,

I think it is fair to assume that most of us here are guitar players as well as builders. Chances are, if you are a player, that you have also attempted to pen a song at sometime.

I write a couple of songs now and then when inspired enough to put pen to paper. A few people have heard my stuff and have suggested that I should maybe think about recording them. Whilst this is flattering, it is not really an option because I just don’t play well enough I’m afraid.

Anyhow, if you thought that you had some material that did show commercial promise, how would you go about copyrighting it to prevent anyone else from cashing in on your work? Hey, I may not play good enough to record my own stuff but maybe I could sell the rights to someone who is and gain some reward and recognition for my creativity that way.

Is the copyrighting of a song an expensive process? I heard that Bob Dylan used to place a copy of his songs in an envelope and secure the seal with wax like in the days of old. He would then go to the post office and post the sealed envelope to himself ensuring that the it was post marked with the dated stamp from that post office. Crude yes, but at the cost of a postage stamp it was supposedly cheap and affective... or maybe it was just another urban myth?

If not a myth, I ask you this, would a letter sealed in such a way, presented in the courts of today, and submitted as exhibit “A”, crush the defence, and win the day, wad do ya say, hey??? (There, told ya I was a song writer ) Sorry .

Anyhow brother OLFers, how can one perform their own songs openly in a public arena so as to give that material some exposure, yet at the same time feel confident that they have effectively protect their IP from exploitation by others??

Cheers

Kim

The following is the text of a document I got from those lovely people at Kingsway Music which lays out a laymans view of copyright that even I can understand......... This document is reproduced here without permission, so I'm probably infringing their copyright anyway!!!

KINGSWAY MUSIC AND THANKYOU MUSIC
COPYRIGHT AND THE SONGWRITER

How do I copyright my songs?
In the UK a songwriter's work is automatically covered by copyright law, and there is
no legal or official procedure to follow. However, in the event of dispute a writer may
be called upon to prove his claim of ownership,

How can I prove I own the copyright on my songs, and that they are my own original work?

Suggested methods:
• A suggestion from The Patent Office is to send your work to yourself by Special
Delivery. When this arrives do not open the envelope. You will then have proof of
the date, on the envelope, and the fact that it remains unopened proves that you
had written the song on or before this date.
• Assign your song to a music publisher who is a member of MCPS (Mechanical
Copyright Protection Society) and PRS (Performing Rights Society),
• Keep a copy of anything that your song may be printed on that has a date. e.g. an
order of service, songsheet etc.

What rights do I have?

• You have the right at all times to grant or withhold permission for the song to be
published in printed form. Administration can be undertaken by you or assigned to
a publisher or administrator.
• You have the right to authorise the first recorded use of the song only. After this
anyone may record your song, subject to the payment of the statutory royalty via
MCPS.
• You have a measure of control, in that words or melody may not be changed
without your permission. This includes translations although this can be difficult to
enforce and often melodies can change unintentionally with passing on from person
to person or in a musical arrangement.
• You are entitled to claim a royalty for any mechanical use of your song. This is a
statutory 6.25% of the net retail price (excl VAT) divided equally amongst the
songs on the recording
• Print Royalties are negotiable but tend to be between 10-15% of the gross income
of the product divided among the copyright holders.
• Radio and TV stations negotiate terms with PRS and the scale is complex
depending on the nature of the broadcast, needle time etc.
• Live public performances are also technically a source of income and are licensed
by PRS. The fees are distributed after costs by PRS and therefore registration is essential.

How can I exercise these rights?

• Administer the songs yourself, which involves the registration of songs and product
with the appropriate statutory agencies, and the granting of permission in writing
for all requested usage,
• Assign your songs to a publisher who is happy to control your rights and carry out
all administration on your behalf, A publisher will have a team of people who will
produce and actively promote material through a wide variety of marketing and
media channels. A publisher will be aware of the marketplace and all necessary
legal requirements and will also have knowledge of changes and developments etc.
• Appoint an administrator who simply collects income on your behalf, keeping a
percentage to cover administration costs,
What will a Music Publisher do for me?
• He registers formal copyright notices with various agencies and other users,
including MCPS and PRS, as well as other major record and publishing companies.
• He collects royalties from all sources and seeks to protect the copyright against
abuse e.g. unauthorised recordings etc.
• He arranges sub-publishing licences to foreign publishers for overseas use, or
sometimes deals directly with the foreign agencies and societies,
• Depending on the popularity of a song, he endeavors to secure as wide a use as
possible of the song, offering it to recording artists, recordings companies, book
publisher's etc. He may also produce and publish material directly himself,
• Overall, a good publisher endeavors to protect copyright interests, collect royalties
from all sources, and seek to fulfil as far as possible the needs and wishes of the
original writer.

How does the Publisher make his money?

The publisher receives all royalty income from the use of your song and deducts a
percentage from this. The percentage is negotiable but is usually on a 50/50 basis,
CCL (Christian Copyright Licensing)
CCL provide licenses to churches and schools, that allow them to reproduce the words
and music of songs that are owned by publishers and song writers (such as yourself)
who have chosen to join the Licensing scheme. The churches and schools then have
to advise CCL which songs they have used. CCL pay royalties to the publishers and
songwriters twice yearly, whose songs have been used. If you wish to find out more
about this, please telephone CCL on 01323 417711,

Sending your material to publishers

Unfortunately, we are no longer receiving any unsolicited material. This is because we
are currently overwhelmed with our own material, from our current writers, You may
wish to try contacting other publishers, A list of publishers and song owners can be
found on the CCL website: www,ccli.co.uk

Hope this is helpful!!

Martin

US is different.......
here's one link........

_________________
My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

Thanks for taking the time to reply Martin, most helpful my friend.

Cheers

Kim

as martin points out, different juridictions have different laws, precedents, rules, conventions and practices. you really have to look into the intellectual property/copyright laws of your specific country rather than assume common application from one jusisdiction to another.

this contrasts with the international treaty conventions which tend to give some degree of international effect to the protections granted by the various national legal stipulations.

i've been away too long to even suggest which fedearal dept encompasses that area of law now, but i should imagine the the federal government's internet information should get you started in the right direction without having to resort to specialist legal advice, though eventually that probably will be required.

I've got four copyrights, but it has been 30 years since I got them. I don't remember them being expensive. I don't have a clue about Australian law, though. You might want an International copyright but I don't know how to go about that either. I agree with the above, though, I don't think a copyright is necessary if you can prove the date of creation.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

I make sure my compositions are so bad that nobody in their right mind would want to copy them

Thanks Michael and Ron,

According to the Australian Copyright Council it would appear that copyright to song material is automatically applied from the pen to paper here in Australia, and that this law is respected and enforceable Internationally. You just need to show that you were the original creator but the Bob letter thang don't cut it.

If you are challenged to prove that you are the sole copyright owner, you just need dated documentation or recordings, maybe a witness to the process or performance of the material prior to that of the challenging party.

I am not sure exactly what the penalties are for making false claim to being the copyright owner of material that is not yours but they make it clear at the above link that they are heavy enough for an unlawful challenge to be extremely risky business.

Martin, you always think'in man

Thanks for your help all

Kim

In the US, almost anything you write will be copyrighted automatically. If you wish to remind people that you hold the copyright, you can put a copyright notice on the document. ex:

Copyright (c) 2007 Mike Mahar, All rights reserved.

If you have a genuine circle c in the font you are using, you should use that. If not, (c) is good.

Since you are writing songs that may be recorded, you might consider one of the song rights organizations. In the US ASCAP and BMI are the ones to consider. ASCAP requires a membership dues whereas, BMI does not. These organization try to inforce your rights as a songwriter when your work is recored or played in performance. For BMI, you send a copy of the work to them for archiving and enforcement. How they know that the version of "Baby I Love You" that is currently hitting the top of the charts is the one you wrote and not one of the 10,000 other "Baby I Love You" songs is a mystery to me.

The copy that is in BMI's records is pretty good for establishing claim to a copyrighted work. In this case the policing is up to you.

I'm not a lawyer but I am a songwriter and that is how it was explained to me when I looked into it a few years back.

Yeah!  That is right.  My Guitar ensemble has a couple of CD's and a tape that we have done, and everything I looked up said we didn't have to take any other steps than to put the words on the CD's and the covers.  The fact that it is recorded and dated is all that matters.  We didn't sent copies to any official organization or the Library of Congress or anything like that.  I guess we aren't too concerned if someone rips us off.  How many are they gonna sell?  We still have most of them ourselves.  Who's gonna buy Renaissance / Classical guitar ensemble CD's except at a Ren Fest, which is where we sell most of the ones we do sell?

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars