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[QUOTE=jtkirby]
But the glue up looks complicated to me. I have a workboard that I clamp 6 small blocks to, then put down a strip of wax paper under the center join, glue up the joint, butt the plate against the blocks on one side, wedge it in tight with some triangular wedges between the plate and blocks on the other side. Then another strip of wax paper and weights on top of the joint, like you.
[/QUOTE]
Jim-
I had the same opinion (and gluing/clamping method) as you until a couple of weeks ago.
I wanted to glue up some thin (0.060 in) yellow cedar panels to use as the interior lamination for a back, and I was worried that the wedge clamping would cause problems with buckling, so I tried the taping method, using clear packing tape. I actually just taped one side, pressed the panel flat and (after checking that the joint was flush all along the length) weighted it down with a stick(with packing tape applied to substitute for wax paper) and some weights. It worked really well.

As Hesh points out, the tape method is something that can be done with little equipment (even making wedges is a major task if you are tool-deprived), so it's a good technique to keep in mind.

I'm probably going to stick to the board and wedges most of the time, but it's always nice to have 'lots of arrows in the quiver' so to speak.

Cheers

John

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]I keep those shavings in a baggie and sprinkle them on the bench when I want someone to think that I actually did something...... [/QUOTE]
Bet you wash 'em first, though!

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]I hear ya my friend and agree with you that with a well set-up and proper sized/type of plane the straight edge should make no difference.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but why not make it as precise as possible from the start? I had a small, poorly sawn Walnut back set that I decided to use for a bookmatched pickguard on an electric I was trying to build. Using my Lie-Nielsen low-angle jack, I planed...and planed...and planed some more. By the time I got those puppies square and flat, a pickguard is about all anybody could get from the wood that was left. Never again without a straight edge for the plane to follow!

BTW, in one of those forehead-slapping moments, I read that you can get the same straight edge effect by setting up a standard shooting board (making sure that the upper part edge is straight) and just running your plane along the upper board edge so the blade takes a bite along the full length. It leaves you with an edge that fits your plane perfectly, and a ledge for your workpiece to hang over. D'oh!

Your tutorial couldn't have been clearer, Hesh. Well done! I learned from your bridge-removal post as well. It always makes more sense when you can see the process. Thanks!

[QUOTE=CarltonM]   Using my Lie-Nielsen low-angle jack, I planed...and planed...and planed some more. By the time I got those puppies square and flat, a pickguard is about all anybody could get from the wood that was left. Never again without a straight edge for the plane to follow!
[/QUOTE]
If the edge is a long way from straight, I sometimes draw a pencil line as a rough guide and quickly get the edge 'close' with a block plane. Then I switch to the jointer plane for the final cuts.
The straightedge sounds like a good trick if you are using a shorter-bodied plane (like a jack) for jointing.

It does take a bit of technique to apply steady and straight pressure on the plane throughout the cut- whenever I get to work on tops/backs, it takes me a few sets before I start to get consistent and quick results, even with a jointer plane. Just another skill I've gotta improve!

John

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie]It does take a bit of technique to apply steady and straight pressure on the plane throughout the cut...[/QUOTE]
Hah! Tell me about it!    I carefully tried to do just that--always ending up with either a dip or a bulge in the middle of the boards. The only way I could ever get it right without an accompanying straight edge is to buy a jointer plane with a long toe (can't afford it) or build one (little time, low skill).

A jointer plane is a nice luxury, for sure.
I don't want to think what mine cost me in terms of $/hour of use!
(But it is nice to have....)

John

John (and Hesh) - I'll have to give the tape a try. It will probably be late-summer before I join another plate, though. I have to get 4 instruments out of here before I dare start another.

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Two things;

If you use a stainless steel straight edge, it's a harder material than the sole of your plane, so you'll get some wear on the sole. Aluminium straight edges avoid this.

Second, if you run some tape all the way along the joint on the first side you tape, it helps to hold the two halves in position when you spread your glue.

Other than that, great tute Hesh.

[QUOTE=CarltonM] [QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie]It does take a bit of technique to apply steady and straight pressure on the plane throughout the cut...[/QUOTE]
Hah! Tell me about it!    I carefully tried to do just that--always ending up with either a dip or a bulge in the middle of the boards. The only way I could ever get it right without an accompanying straight edge is to buy a jointer plane with a long toe (can't afford it) or build one (little time, low skill). [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "steady pressure", I think it is best to sligtly shift the pressure from the front to the back of the plane as you cut or the plane will cut unevenly. Also, a jointer plane is not the best tool for this IMO; too heavy and bulky for the short guitar plates. A #4 or #5 or so is easier to control (plus they are cheaper too). I use a #5 1/2 and a shooting board with stops on two sides, and it usually only takes a few strokes to get a perfect fit and I'm no wizard, believe me.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

as i have stated on a number of occasions on this and other fora, i am in complete agreement with arnt about a jointer plane being too heavy, bulky and cumbersome for joining guitar plates. for me, it is simpl too much tool for the task; like cracking walnust with a 16# sledge.... sure it will do the job but....

the pressure thing... on a shooting board i usually only use one hand when jointing plates, so i do tend to strive for a uniform pressure. after all we are only trying to remove a grain line or less in very fine shavings. not like using a scruber to level a warped rough sawn board. years ago when i jointed plates in a vice i used two hands, and utilized the technique arnt describes. it is just basic hand plane 101.

[QUOTE=Arnt]

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "steady pressure", I think it is best to slightly shift the pressure from the front to the back of the plane as you cut or the plane will cut unevenly.
[/QUOTE]

That's what I meant, Arnt. You put it much better.
Pressure has to be applied to the part of the plane that is in contact with the wood.

John

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] as i have stated on a number of occasions on this and other fora, i am in complete agreement with Arnt about a jointer plane being too heavy, bulky and cumbersome for joining guitar plates. for me, it is simply too much tool for the task; like cracking walnuts with a 16# sledge.... sure it will do the job but....
[/QUOTE]
I think it all depends on what's available; you could probably joint plates with a block plane if you were skilled enough, and had enough time.
I set up my (long)shooting board with the jointer in mind, so the bulk is not an issue. And, I use a wood-bodied (ECE) plane, so it probably weighs a bit less than the steel versions, and slides well. (I'm not a big fan of heavy steel planes.)
I think of the analogy with a powered jointer when considering the optimum plane length issue. With a powered jointer, you get much better results if the infeed and outfeed tables are each as long as your workpiece. (I know; I've been making do with a short-bed Inca jointer for years. A long bed machine is a real joy in comparison.) Why wouldn't the same logic apply to a hand plane- assuming you were strong enough to slide it along an extended shooting board?
This is a particularly apt analogy when you see folks using a stationary hand plane and moving the work against the plane. When traditional craftsmen (like coopers) used this technique, their plane lengths were measured in feet.

Cheers
John

there are many who would agree with you. be a boring old world if we all thought the same, wouldn't it.

but as i've never built wooden vats, tuns, barrels, kegs or buckets i can't speak to any aspect of the coopers art, other than the beneficial effects upon certain beverages derived from lazing around in their products for appropriate, often extended, periods.

but as for joining top and back plates, i have successfully done it with a 7, 5, 4, 3, and a block, though the 3 and the block made the task of achieving accuracy more demanding, whilst the 7 was just harder work than it needed to be with no corresponding gain in quality or efficiency. i found the 5 best for me in terms of excellent results, minimal effort over short time frame whilst removing minimum stock to get the job done.

thus i guess we shall have to agree to disagree!!

Michael-
You've probably jointed more plates that I ever will, so I'll defer to you and give you the 'last word' on this topic!
Guess I should dust off my 5 1/2 and give it a run!

Cheers

John

What Arnt said. Takes a bit of feel, and I'm currently a wrestling a little with the archtop plate I've got to joint (also, in general, I find softwoods more difficult to joint than hardwoods).

I'm currently jointing with a jointer plane, but, well, it's made of wood, rock-solid cut, so it's not a whole lot heavier than a 5 1/2, I'd wager. Not unwieldingly so, anyway. Then again, I've mostly been jointing mahogany boards for necks and electrics lately....

Another challenge we face when jointing edges in pairs is that any errors in straightness are doubled. For that reason I sometimes do fine touch-up on only one side.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Thanks Hesh!! I really like your method here. Thanks for all the great tips and tricks lately. 

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian