Official Luthiers Forum!

i'm unaware of what part of the country you reside in but down hear the 14" deltas, etc., are plentiful on the used market. there is usually at least one advertised most weeks. maybe we have a higher population of woodworkers upgrading, or maybe a higher rate of dropouts.

for a while i bought used machines at auctions, garage and estate sales and onsell. it became unworthwhile as prices started going up; there just wasn't the headroom to make anything.

still have my van with the hydraulic lift that i used to haul stuff to and fro. perhaps it's time to think about onselling it?

Was contacted with an intriguing option. Couple year old as-new MM16 with mobility kit and a few extra blades for $2200. Would be doing the "all my eggs in one basket" approach, but everything I've heard says that the MM16 is an awesome machine.

Andrew

Michael,

One of the lessons I seem to have to re-learn from time to time is to always buy the best the first time.  I just upgraded my 15" Jet planer, and 6" Powermatic jointer to a 20" planer with Byrd carbide head and 12" jointer.  Should have bought the bigger machines the first time.

I have a 20" bandsaw from Sunhill and recently bought a 14" Powermatic.  I like the 20" for resawing, but use the 14" way more than I thought I would.  If I had it to do over again I would buy a Minimax. 

One thing to remember about manufacturer's horse power ratings - they don't mean anything.  What really matters is the amperage rating.

The previous reccomendation on carbide blades for resawing is spot on.  I'm currently running a 1" Laguna resaw blade and don't like it - stick with the Lennox or Suffolk.

The link below is for a machinery outlet in my area that ships nationwide.  He sells "scratch and dent" Jet, Poermatic, and Wilton.  Ususally his stuff is brand new and had a frieght damaged box.

http://www.equipmentsalesandsurplus.com/

Doug

 

Ah Doug, Sweetie isn't going to like you. That place is right down the hill from us. Oh this is going to be painful.

Thanks.

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Aoibeann

Andrew,
The MM16 is a very nice bandsaw - nice features and better quality than a
Grizzly. I normally don't recommend Grizzly for certain machines - but
the bandsaw is a very simple machine. My personal opinion is that you
will get a heck of a lot more machine spending your $2200 on a new
Grizzly than the MM16. The bigger Grizzly bandsaws are industrial
machines in every sense of the word. I could easily be resawing 16"
boards all day long with my 24" Grizzly. The reason I chose that over the
MM16 was because it is more powerful, the huge cast iron wheels have
enough momentum to cut through just about anything, and it has a much
bigger table.

If you are very savy, you should be able to find a great deal on a used
machine but with power tools I really like to have that year of warranty.
And with Grizzly, if something is perfect, you just ask them to send you
out another part.

Like the others have said, get the best tool you can that you think you will
take full advantage of. Obviously, getting a Martin sliding table is a just a
tad bit ridiculous for guitar building. But you get the point.

Best of luck,
Simon

I can't speak for the Grizzly machine, but the MM16 is a heck of a saw and you will not regret the purchase. I change blades all of the time on mine, it only takes a few minutes, no big deal and well worth the trouble in my mind. I've had lesser saws that will do the job, but this one is a joy to use with power to spare. Simon does have a point about the size advantage of a 20+ inch saw, not that you would ever need more resaw height than the 16" on my MM16, but the added table size and space between blade and frame would be nice at times. But, that saw(20+") is going to be HUGE so you better have room...they are also taller so check your space. Some of the older MM16 saws did not have 16" of resaw capacity and they had a smaller motor, so if that matters, check out these features on the MM16 you are looking at....the older ones are still great machines.

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

I've seen that review Todd, I believe that Laguna has since increased the power in their saw to a Baldor 5hp, but I think the other issues are still there, either way I'd take the MM.

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

I believe in having 2 bandsaws, and I also believe in large, used stationary machines!   There is nothing like mass to make a big machine stable, and older machines also usually have very good mechanics and motors. I have an old Italian Centaur 24" / 3hp / 3 phase saw, but I also have a new 12" Asian import; one for resawing and larger material and one for, well...smaller things. They both required a bit of tinkering and upgrades to run smoothly initially (and for different reasons), but bandsaws are such simple machines that once you get familiar with the principles there is really not much to it. Get "the Bandsaw Book" and go for it.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Forgot to add (and since we don't have an edit button...):

I don't know about over on your side, but over here used machines are but a fraction of the cost of new ones, and you can do a lot of upgrades for the money you save. Will you end up with a better machine in the end? Who knows, but I do know the money saved can be used on wood!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I am like Arnt... I have two bandsaws (actually 3) but have one large one for resawing (20" resaw) and one small (Delta 14" w. height adaptor) for cutting out curves and other things where a large saw would be overkill. In that way each setup is intact so there is no setup time when doing something.

One other opinion here FWIW....if I had a certain amount of dollars to spend I would rather buy one great saw than 2 lesser saws for the sake of a little convenience. In the end of course 2 saws would be wonderful.

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

Andrew,
For what its worth, I completely agree with Greg. I have a MiniMax jointer
and it is incredible quality. I don't think you would regret the MiniMax at
all. If money were no option I would have gone with MiniMax or Agazzani
- but I do believe that you will get more saw from Grizzly at the same
price point.

Also, you can get a messed up bandsaw to function great again with a
little knowledge. As I mentioned before, the blade is what does all the
work. For any type of resawing, the bigger the bandsaw the better.

And there is no doubt, that if you keep your eyes and ears open for a
while, you should be able to find a great used bandsaw. And you would
most definitely be getting the best buy if you go that route.

Best of Luck,
Simon

You have gotten some really good advice here, and you will have to do what is right for you, but I did see this on ebay this morning when looking around.  http://cgi.ebay.com/Delta-28-682-18-Wood-Cutting-Band-Saw_W0 QQitemZ170099689343QQihZ007QQcategoryZ57124QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI tem

it is a new - in the crate- with 2 yr warranty - Delta 18"(12 resaw), 2 hp, 230 v, 60hz, single phase, $1,399, Free Shipping in the US - For what it is worth.  It is a buy it now auction with 10 hours left.  He has 5 of them.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Andrew,
I am in agreement with Arnt on the two bandsaws comment. I have one 14" delta cast iron with riser block to do my small work. With some upgraded guides and a sharp blade, I am able to resaw stock when needed. I am still looking for my large bandsaw. I am in the market for a 20 - 36" Oliver, Moak or other well crafted machine. The only problem I have finding the big ones is their location. At the moment, San Fran and New York are too far from Central Illinios for me to justify traveling.

As for you grandfather's wishes, it sounds like he intended for you to purchase something of proven long lasting and high quality. As a woodworker and old woodworking machine restorer, I suggest you do find a machine like an Oliver or Walker Turner or other high quality machine. You can find many of these machines at government surplus and furniture factory liquidation auctions. If you are mechanically inclined at all, with the help from the forum at www.owwm.com, you should be able to repair any problems that arise. In fact, I suggest you go to the site and study many of the bandsaws and read some of the forum comments (archives) about the bandsaws. You will undoubtedly find more information than you would like.
If you are not willing to fix a saw yourself, send a note out on the owwm.com forum that you are looking for restorers / sales guys in your area. If I recall correctly, there is one large restorer just over the border in Ohio. By the way, a rotary phase convertor should also be included in your estimated price.
Good luck finding your bandsaur.
Chris

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

live every minute...

Chris, you are in the best part of the country for finding a good used industrial bandsaw. Google for used machinery dealers. You really ought to have an Oliver, and I saw a couple when I googled for "oliver bandsaw" a few weeks ago.

I want to comment on the several remarks here that seem to say buy used, since you never have to do anything but tune up an old machine. I have seen people spend way more time and money than it was worth trying to get a good quality (Powermatic, etc.) old machine running right. If the main bearings are worn out, no amount of tuning is going to fix it. There can be slop in every adjustment screw and in the ways. If you are not in the business of rebuilding machinery, it is not worth your time and money. So, used can be great, but either you know how to test for these things, or you go to a reliable dealer who rebuilds them if they need it.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Try www.woodweb.com-thay have a used machinery section.

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] Chris, you are in the best part of the country for finding a good used industrial bandsaw. Google for used machinery dealers. You really ought to have an Oliver, and I saw a couple when I googled for "oliver bandsaw" a few weeks ago.

I want to comment on the several remarks here that seem to say buy used, since you never have to do anything but tune up an old machine. I have seen people spend way more time and money than it was worth trying to get a good quality (Powermatic, etc.) old machine running right. If the main bearings are worn out, no amount of tuning is going to fix it. There can be slop in every adjustment screw and in the ways. If you are not in the business of rebuilding machinery, it is not worth your time and money. So, used can be great, but either you know how to test for these things, or you go to a reliable dealer who rebuilds them if they need it.[/QUOTE]

You are right, of course. If you don't "now how to test for these things", it is a good idea to bring along a friend who does when you go to check out the machine or buy from a reputable used machinery dealer. Over here we have International Machine Register.   It is a pretty good system, I bought my Wadkin table saw from a dealer in Denmark on this list at a great price. These dealers will tell you what condition the machine is and some of them fix them up too. You probably have something similar on your side I bet; buying from such a place is a good idea if you don't find working on old machinery interesting.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Sorry Brad, I didn't read your post before replying to Howard's post; I see you gave an address to such a web site. Aaargh, please give us back that edit button...

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

What would I be giving up with a 16" rather than an 18" or larger saw? Would I not be able to use carbide blades at all?

Andrew

do you plan on going into the wood vending business? if not you really don't need carbide bandsaw blades.

as the carbide blades are thicker they don't like small wheels. you flex the blade too much and it fatigues early and breaks. you could do it, but you would probably be wasting the blades potential.

I've used the Lennox Trimaster carbide tipped blade on my MM16" saw for several years now with no problems. I don't leave it under tension, maybe that has helped?

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

Tried a Woodslicer several years ago. It was dull out of the box and ruined a nice piece of curly maple. I don't give second chances on things like bandsaw blades.

In my experience, flexing the blade around a smaller wheel generates more heat, and this causes the lead angle of a steel blade to keep changing. Best solution I have found is to make guide cuts with a Diablo blade on the table saw first. Its 1/16" kerf is a bit more than you can get with a perfect bandsaw cut, but in practice it has saved me wood.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

howard, i've never tried that. great when you learn something new every day.