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[QUOTE=BarryDaniels] Kim, Are you growling at me or just veiling a threat?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BarryDaniels] Kim, Are you growling at me or just veiling a threat?[/QUOTE]

Where did that come from?? Just because a post on a forum appears directly below your own does not indicate that the its author was responding to you or has even read what you had written.

Barry, it is quite simply not in my nature to "Veil" anything. And I would not growl at or threaten anyone in the USA as the cost of the required airfare to allow me to darken their door and do so would be restrictive.

If I had that sort of money to throw around I would simply do Ervin's course so that I could throw a little salt around too Maybe I could stay with my mate Dave, he wants to see me.

Cheers

Kim

I wish to thank all who have shared and here and that includes Ervin Somogy. I have to much pride(a fault) to ask for more than is freely given. I personally think Heshes methane treatments, though dangerous, are THE KEY to master grade instruments.

All that being said, I have Tone Faerie arguing in my head and only Sr. Somogy could get them to quiet down.
99.99% of them are saying there is no way he would ever bake a top the other two are yelling "How would you know?". So if any of you have a good enough relationship with Ervin a p.m. with the answer might help me stay sane. If there is no p.m., well then maybe slightly crazy people build instruments with more MOJO!

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Edit.

Hey y'all hopes ya's havin a good day!

                Kirby

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]
There is no "however" about it...... When valued members have expressed that Somogyi's offering are beyond reach for them why continue drive the BMW 7 up their behind......

And when other valued members have expressed that they received great value from Somogyi's and other masters offerings be happy for them too.
[/QUOTE]



I have never taken Ervin's course. I cannot afford to take Ervin's course because of both the time and money required to take it. That said, I do not feel any frustration with being unable to take the course, just as I feel no frustration for not being able to buy a BMW.

At the same time, I do not feel any ill will toward Ervin for not wanting to give away his product. And that's exactly what Ervin's class is. It's a product that he sells as part of his business. I also have no bad feelings toward any of the members here who have taken the course and have expressed their feelings about it. I am happy for them that they were able to take the course and that it was helpful to them.


[QUOTE=Hesh1956]
Andy, remember him - he started this thread because he is excited that his post-Somogyi guitars sound great. Andy has shared with us his high level of satisfaction with Somogyi's class and I am sure Andy is correct in his assertions.
[/QUOTE]

So am I. Andy was fortunate to be able to take the course and I am glad it was everything he wanted it to be.



[QUOTE=Hesh1956]In all honesty here my initial inclination to become a Somogyi student is now morphing into wondering why I would wish to do any thing that might distance myself from my abilities to relate to and understand others.
[/QUOTE]

Your decision on whether or not to take the course should be based on whether or not YOU think you will receive a value that is worth the cost of attending. What others think should not matter at all.


[QUOTE=Hesh1956]The more some of you drive home the value that you received with a complete disregard for others that are not able to take Somogyi's class the more personally turned off to the idea of taking Somogyi's class that I become as well.

[/QUOTE]

How is people talking about their experiences with the course any different form some people here talking about tools they have purchased that others cannot afford? I've seen messages here about expensive drum sanders that I cannot afford. Should others not talk about their tools because I cannot afford them?

Jim

Kim, Maybe your right. That first post may not have been directed
in my direction. However, the second one came close to crossing
the line in lifting the veil.

There was a murder and suicide that occured this afternoon a couple
of hundred yards from where I work so maybe I'm just on edge. But
this place is not half as friendly as it is made out to be. I think I
need a vacation.

Jim, it seems like you are missing the point a little bit. No one, especially
Hesh, seems to me to be saying that Ervin shouldn't charge money for his
class.

People DO seem to be annoyed by the secrecy surrounding it and the idea
that people who take the class can't really talk about what they learned.
You don't take a college course and then have the teacher tell you that
you can't talk to people outside the class about the matter. That's what
bugs people.

My take is that it's unnecessary for Mr. Somogyi to be asking people not
to talk about what they learned. And it obviously turns a lot of people
off. I certainly don't think that he would lose any students by not
requesting that. I guarantee that Robbie doesn't lose any students by
NOT telling them to keep his lessons on the down low.

Then again, it certainly does create a "mystique" about his class and
techniques. And maybe that's really his goal in issuing that request?!?
But what do I know?

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

[QUOTE=SniderMike]
People DO seem to be annoyed by the secrecy surrounding it and the idea

that people who take the class can't really talk about what they learned.

You don't take a college course and then have the teacher tell you that

you can't talk to people outside the class about the matter. That's what

bugs people.
[/QUOTE]

I do get the point, Mike. My point is that the classes are Ervin's product and they are based on information and experience that he acquired over years of working. That information is his to sell and his to control as best he can. If others freely pass on the information he provides them, they are devaluing his product.

Ervin is not secretive about the content of his classes. When I was editing Guitarmaker, we printed a preview of  an upcoming class (and I drew criticism for devoting space in the magazine to Ervin's course).



[QUOTE=SniderMike]My take is that it's unnecessary for Mr. Somogyi to be asking people not

to talk about what they learned. And it obviously turns a lot of people

off. I certainly don't think that he would lose any students by not

requesting that. I guarantee that Robbie doesn't lose any students by

NOT telling them to keep his lessons on the down low.
[/QUOTE]

OK..but I would guess that Robbie would get upset if I purchased one of his DVDs and mailed out copies to others. The DVDs are Robbie's product and Ervin's classes are his product.


That said, I am done repeating myself on this topic.

Jim

[QUOTE=BarryDaniels]
....this place is not half as friendly as it is made out to be. I think I need a vacation.[/QUOTE]

Barry, sometimes I think this place is a little too friendly. It's ok to debate, and disagree. That's what forums were invented for (think ancient greeks & Romans). There should be more of it, not less. And besides, it's fun.

Just remember that it's the idea, not the person who raised it, that is open to criticism.

If Ervin reads this thread and thinks I've been unfair too him, then I give my apologies. I'm just a poor scientist who thinks all knowledge should be freely shared.

But then, I also have this huge mortgage....

Barry I do not understand this "Veil" to which you continue to refer. My second post was in reply to your misguided assumption and the point of that reply was to trying and make you understand that I would rather fly to the USA if I felt I needed to make any threats to anyone there rather than hide behind the anonymous veil of an Internet forum to do so.

I do not see why you had to make a personal comment directed at me in the first place. I think that most members here would agree that I am, maybe to a fault, pretty upfront and open about my thought on this forum. And in that vein, I think that you are just coming across as being a little paranoid and it is precisely that kind of reaction which prevents this place from being as friendly as it is projected to be.

Regards

Kim

[QUOTE=Jim Samuel]
OK..but I would guess that Robbie would get upset if I purchased one of
his DVDs and mailed out copies to others. The DVDs are Robbie's product
and Ervin's classes are his product.[/QUOTE]

I definitely agree. But I don't think anyone is asking to get into the class
for free, or to get a video or transcript for free. I also know that Robbie
would not be upset if I discussed his methods, from his class or dvd,
on the forum.

Ervin's classes are indeed his product, but he doesn't "own" any
information. The real value of his class, it seems to me, is learning
hands-on and directly from him. Even if an entire transcript of his class
was available, I still don't think it would take any students away from him.
You can always read a book about anything, but it's entirely different
from interacting with the master.

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

[QUOTE=SniderMike] Even if an entire transcript of his class
was available, I still don't think it would take any students away from him.
You can always read a book about anything, but it's entirely different
from interacting with the master. [/QUOTE]

And there in lay the difference of the 2 camps here, I agree with you Mike wholeheartedly. I think that having the knowledge more freely talked about by past students would in-fact have even more people clambering to Evin's door to take the course.

I think that most people are intelligent enough to understand that the full benefits of Evin Somogyi's methodologies in accessing ones own progress and material could only really be fine tuned by talking with the man himself. But having his students talk openly about how they accessed THAT top and WHY they chose to brace it with THOSE dimensions of bracing, and just WHAT it was that THEY took from Ervin's class that allowed them to reach that decision would be VERY interesting to us ALL.

Cheers all

Kim

For those who've attended "the class," how does Somogyi pronounce his name? Hard or soft "g"? Pronounce the "yi" as "yee"? Eastern European strangness like soh-MOHJ?

See you'all down the road.

Cheers

OK, I think that I've had enough of the ich and personally I think this has gone way beyond a debate.

This thread was started by Andy (who may be regretting it now) to say that he has heard with his ears a difference in HIS creations pre and post Ervin's class and he wanted to tell you all that what he learned was good stuff. He is now able to create HIS sound, not Ervin's or Olson's or Gallop's or anyone else's for that matter.

Well done Andy, your getting there.

He also respects the wishes of the source. Enough said there. I respect you Andy (and the other's who've been to the course).

This is really preposterous that grown men can't let this go. This has started to get personal and beyond a debate in my mind.

Honestly, No offense here to Ervin and with all due respect, he's one among hundreds of very very fine guitar builders (in the US alone) out there who have been able to create the exact sound that he wants, every time. Yes he's got something good to offer, but that doesn't mean that he's the only one or that his methodology is the be all and end all. If anyone thinks that's the case than I'd have to say that you're wrong and brainwashed. Yes, he is able to help anyone who wants it with voicing principles. But honestly, is this all worth the effort because he asked his students to withhold information about the course.

Personally, I am disgusted with all who keep at it when there are certainly other guitar building questions which need attention here.

And we are wondering why some very very great people have left here in the past 2 or 3 months. It's not really as great recently as it has been in the past.

Honestly, I'm sad to call myself an OLF'er after reading all this.

Get over it and move one. Another black eye for the OLF.

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I agree Rod. I am closing this and archiving it.

_________________
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