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Hello Friends,
I'm sure this topic has been brought up before but I just don't remember when.
My question is: When Martin guitar Co. mentions a Forward Shift of the X bracing ...in what direction is Forward..Towards the tail block or towards the neck block??
How many inches is this shift done??
Any additional help on this topic will be helpful.
OH!!...Can this be done on a OOO model or is it limited to specific models?
Thanks so much!!
Regards, WalterK

I think it means you hold the guitar on your left knee instead of yoour right

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

To me forward means toward the neck. Unless you are doing what Lance said and holding the guitar on your right knee then a shift to the left would be forward. Good one Lance

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Forward shift is a term used to describe the difference in Martins early and late designs of certain guitars where they shifted the x-brace forward towards the sound hole to open up the sound producing area of the top. I believe they moved it about an inch toward the sound hole. You can put your braces anywhere you want them but the reason they are called shifted is that it was a change in an already established design. I usually put my x about an 1.5" behind the soundhoe and so that it passes under the ends of the bridge but just barely. I think my rear angle between the x braces is usually about 95° or soJohn How38488.5603125

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[QUOTE=John How] Forward shift is a term used to describe the difference in Martins early and late designs of certain guitars where they shifted the x-brace forward towards the sound hole to open up the sound producing area of the top. I beleive they moved it about an inch toward the sound hole.[/QUOTE]

An inch? John I thought it was more like 3/8". Of course, history has always been a weak subject for me, but I thought it went from 1 3/8" away from the soundhole to 1" away? That may not be enough movement, but that's what I seem to remember. Anyway, the point is that it does indeed shift toward the soundhole.

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You may be right Steve because I don;t have a book in front of me. I also think I got my own design info wrong above because I don't think mine are 1.5" back either. more like an inch but now I'll have to check.John How38488.5622916667

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Forward shift TOWARD the soundhole. Opens a bit more soundboard to vibrate below the bridge in the lower bout area.
Yes, you can do it on a OOO...all my OOO (12 frets) have the X brace 1 inch down from the soundhole and the legs are splayed at 96 degrees. The end of my bridge passes over the lower X brace at the point I place one small wing brace tangent to the X brace leg.

Thanks Hank...I finally got an intelligent answer concerning this topic.
Do you believe it is worth the change?
Is it truly an audible advantage?
Thanks again Brother..I appreciate it!!
Regards, WalterK

Walter - I think you got more than one intelligent answer here mine was the only bone headed remark -sorry of I offended you

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Lance,
I'm not mad at you or anyone else. I'm just nervous about my Cancer test on thursday. I was playing around with my guitar to get things off my mind. I just took it the wrong way. No offense taken my Brother.
I'm just afraid of what they will find on thursday.
I have so much to live for...
Thanks for your understanding.
Kindest Regards, Walter

Thanks everyone for your help on this "Forward Shift" topic.
I seem to have a better understanding of it now!!
I appreciate it!!
WalterK

Walter,

Our thoughts will be with you on thursday. Please keep us posted.

Jeff

Walter,
May God be with you and comfort you and your family in your time of need. I will keep you in my prayers.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Our prayers are with you as well, Walter. God Bless.

May God Bless you all...and thank you for your prayers!!
Walter

Do you believe it is worth the change?
Is it truly an audible advantage?
Thanks again Brother..I appreciate it!!
Regards, WalterK [/QUOTE]

Well, Walter, I've only built with that configuration from the start so I have no reference point to base a judgment on. Too, my bracing "architecture" is a tad different from comparable instruments (say a Martin OOO-12 fret)so again it's hard to compare.
However, I am more than delighted with the tone, sustain, overtone development, string to string separation, etc....as are the customers who have purchased a OOO from me.
My advice would be to Go For It. I do not think you will be disappointed in the tonal outcome.

If you need any more details, drop me a PM note and I'll try to give you as much of my $.02 as you can stand.

Would the amount of shift be the same for, let's say L-00 and S/J?

[QUOTE=bob J] Would the amount of shift be the same for, let's say L-00 and S/J?[/QUOTE]

If that question was directed to me...yes it should work on any X braced instrument, but you may need to work with the bracing/bridgeplate/bridge/wing braces relationship a bit. All my models (OM,SJ,OOO,Parlors, etc) are built with the X brace forward shifted. I do have some minor tweaks of the bracing from model to model, but not a major problem.

Thanks Hank, and to all