Official Luthiers Forum!

I know where I stand. Too little, too late.

Dean

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Dean

To err is human, to forgive is....well, a good thing.
Nicely spoken Michael. Good on ya.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Appreciated, Michael.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

“Forgiveness does not change the past, but it does enlarge the future.”

Thomas S. Szasz quote:
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.”

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Well, it's sad that Michael either left or was kicked out. It was right that he was called out and questioned on his use of the word. He was right to apologize, but his intent was clearly not racist or malicious and his explanation makes perfect sense when you go back and read the comment. He was clearly just joking with Loren at how his thread had gone off the rails.

"Pogrom" is not a demeaning slur, it's a word with historical connotations (to terrible historical events) and clearly a lot of us, including Michael, didn't understand the historical significance of the word, and many even just assumed a typo not knowing the original general meaning. I just read it to mean "destruction" and it makes perfect sense if you replace the word in the original post (of course, the play on words of "get with the program" would be lost). I'm positive that everyone that knows and understands the word now won't use it so lightly.

Labeling someone a "racist" is a serious, serious accusation, and it should not be handed out so easily, especially in a public forum.

What ever happened to assuming the best about a person's intent when it's not made clear?

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Excellent Jon, just perfect.

I got a great email from Michael.  I believe he is genuine and regrets this ever happened.  While there are some that my refuse to accept it, he's done what was necessary.

Thanks Michael, and thanks to others who tried to make things  better, I even enjoyed some of the YOUtube videos in the process.

Have a great day guys and gals.  Long live the spirit of the OLF, one of sharing and caring about guitars..... and each other!

Very good, Jon. I hope our Jewish community can see it that way. When I read and re-read the original posts, I felt that Michael was sincere in his first explanation and really showed no bigotry, just didn't think about what he was really writing. I'd never seen nor heard that term and certainly wouldn't have known of its significance to our Jewish friends. Here is a great example of where intent makes all the difference and although Michael shouldn't have said it, I don't think there was any malicious intent there. Now we all have learned a very important lesson.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Michael,
That was a nice apology. I am impressed with your completeness, sincerity, and lack of excuses.

Ron,
I agree with you.

Something I consider as being almost as bad as being a racist, is the refusal to accept a sincere apology, and I do really racism.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Is this all about the word pogrom? Poor taste to use, given the historical connotations (even just given the 'textbook' definition, really) but in and of itself it's hardly a racial slur by any stretch of the imagination. Although I'm still lacking context.

If used in jest, not malice, one would be guilty of exhibiting extremely poor taste and insensitivity, not anti-semitism ('racism', I feel, would be the incorrect term.)

Mattia,
You took the words right outta my mouth! Finally someone put the word in its proper context!

Mattia, I agree entirely with you, well done for saying it. This has been a real 'mountain out of molehill' affair. No-one, and I mean no-one has come out of it with any honour.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

   I don;t think there is anyone of us that at one time or another didn't say something that we wish we hadn't. THe best we can do is learn from our mistakes.
   I have to admit I have done and said some harsh things in anger or stupidity. We all do it just hopefully we learn from it.
    With this episode over I hope the dust settles and we can go back to our luthiery and may we keep the strings tight and out minds open
john hall

Michael - You've done the best you can to make amends, and I hope to keep seeing you here on the OLF.

                      Peace, Paul