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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:23 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:19 am
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Location: United States
I am at the point where I am trying to make sure I have a well-rounded set of the tools I need to build guitars. I am looking to build my set of planes and would like you thoughts on the following questions as I try to build a basic set of planes:

  • What size planes should I get?
  • What type of planes should be in my set?
  • Any recommendations on brands?

I can't afford the really high end planes I see in ther Garrett-Wade catalog, but I do not want to waste money on junk. So, I am looking for quality, reasonably-priced planes.

Jim





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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:30 am 
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First name: Waddy
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Jim:

I'm sure others will chime in here, but there are sources of already set-up older planes out there, but you need to know the right places to look.  Once set up and sharpened right most of them will produce pretty good results.  We have had a number of threads discussing planes in the last few months.  You might check the archives.  I know a couple of people have mentioned sources of used, set-up planes.  I think most people recommend a low angle block plane with an adjustable throat, and a #4 or #5 Bench plane for thicknessing and smoothing at a minimum.  Beyond that I can't make any recommendations. 


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:35 am 
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Cocobolo
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For a good basic set, I would recommend a block plane and a #4 or #5 size bench plane. I find those two get the most use. I found some good condition used Stanley planes at a local flea market, but I see similar stuff on E-bay all the time. They might need a little tune-up, but that is not hard to do.

The high-end tools seem really nice, but you can make really nice guitars with reasonably priced tools. One thing I would recommend is getting a Hock blade (and chip breaker for the bench planes). A really nice blade will make a world of difference.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:41 am 
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Here is a good link to a place with decent prices on Hock Chip Breakers and blades.  They may not be the lowest for blades, but they are lower than some places.  I have not seen a better price on the Chip Breakers (Cap Irons, as they call them).

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:49 am 
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Great, a plane thread! That is my idea of a fun thread!

But fist some questions: What are you going to build? Some instruments, such as arch top guitars or mandolins require different planes that flat top guitars. The second question is what operations will you use planes for? Do you also have a thickness sander, a jointer, belt sander and so on, eliminating the need for planes for some things?

I am crazy enough about planes (plane crazy?) that I have several of each bench plane size, wooden planes, thumb planes, shop made planes, infill planes, plow planes, rabbet planes, you name it. Here is my list for a "survival kit" of planes for a flat top guitar, and even now that I have all manner of large power tools I would not want to be without them.

#5 1/2("jack")- for jointing tops and backs and thicknessing tops
#4 ("smoother")- general purpose plane, can do the operations above too, as well as most other guitar part shaping.
#60 1/2 - ("low angle block plane") all the little things, trimming parts.

If you buy older, good quality Stanley planes from a reputable dealer (Patrick Leach is one), you will be all set for most guitar building operations. They can be upgraded with after market irons, but keeping them well tuned and SHARP is way more important IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:55 am 
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Here is a link to Leach's list of used planes for sale for June.  From this, you can get to the website and see descriptions of all the Stanley planes, and sign up to get the list.  He puts a new one out each month.

Used Planes


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:10 am 
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Koa
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I went plane crazy last year on eBay and built up my collection of bench planes... Haven't even rehab'd any of them yet. Standard issue bench planes (#3 thru #6) are pretty common and even the old ones from near the turn-of-the-century are not all that rare or expensive.

Here's a good site for figuring out the date on old planes and the subtle differences from year to year:
link

There are a lot of ways of sharpening planes, my favorite so far makes use of the Veritas MKII honing jig (not the powered one). The thing I like about it is the gauge that comes with it for setting the precise blade angle.


Just be careful, before long your house might look like this:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:33 am 
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Walnut
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Location: United States

[QUOTE=Arnt]
But fist some questions: What are you going to build? Some instruments, such as arch top guitars or mandolins require different planes that flat top guitars. The second question is what operations will you use planes for? Do you also have a thickness sander, a jointer, belt sander and so on, eliminating the need for planes for some things?


[/QUOTE]

Good questions. I will be building flattop acoustics. I have a 6" Jet jointer, do not have a thickness sander. I have a belt sander.

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:45 am 
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Koa
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Location: Denver, Colorado
Jim, I'd have to agree with most here. Definitely a #4 smoother and a low
angle block plane. A stanley 60 1/2 is great with a Hock or other
replacement blade. Lie-Nielsen, as I'm sure you know, makes great
planes if you can afford them, but they also make great replacement
blades for Stanley and others. Check their website.

I would also recommend a small shoulder plane, perhaps, and a little
finger plane of some sort is always very helpful.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:56 pm 
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Koa
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Everyone's popping out their personal preferences, but let's see if I can give you a more comprehensive discussion of your options.

First, let's talk about what brand/style of plane you should get assuming you know what size you want.

Option 1: Pay a bunch of money for a very well made metal-body plane that is well-tuned and adjusted out of the box. Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley are good examples. Hone the blade, and they're ready to go. Excellent tool, tight tolerances, right out of the box. Lots of money.

Option 2: Pay a smaller amount of money for a cheaper new plane. Modern day Stanleys are an example. Cheap enough, but it will need tuning -- the sole will not be flat, may not be square to the side, etc. You can fix all of this. There are plenty of websites and books that will teach you how, and it's easy. It does take a bit of time and elbow grease, though. The blades and chipbreakers in these planes tend to be thin and flimsy. You'll want to replace them with a good blade and chipbreaker by Ron Hock. Expect more slop in the adjustments, which takes a little more patience when using.

Option 3: Buy an old used Stanley-Bailey off e-bay. This is very similar to option 2. But the old planes were better made than the new Stanleys, so when you are done you will probably have a better quality plane. You'll probably need a Hock blade and chipbreaker too.

Option 4: Woodies. Old-fashioned wooden handplanes are one of the most enjoyable tools in woodworking. Steve Knight makes them (by hand) today, and his planes are outstanding. They are also a lot less money than the high-quality new planes, and you'll pay about what you'd pay for a used Stanley - Bailey with a Hock blade and chipbreaker. (Steve Knight's planes come with great blades.) You can buy used woodies cheap, but they may need more adjustment than a new Knight. Woodies are super easy to keep tuned (wood sands flat and true much easier than metal). You can also buy Japanese-style wooden handplanes, which are also very good. Most woodworking stores carry them, as does JapanWoodworker.com. You have to get used to adjusting the blade on woodies --- you tap the blade with a hammer or the plane body with a mallet instead of the turn-screw style adjustment on metal planes. But once you get the hang of it, it's just as easy as adjusting blades on a metal body plane.

Option 5: Make your own. Yes, I said make your own. It is not that difficult. If you lack confidence, your local Woodcraft probably puts on a "making your own handplanes" weekend workshop you can attend, and almost any of the numerous hobbyist woodworking schools offer classes on making your own handlplanes. There are also plenty of books on making handplanes, and you should be able to check one out at your local library. You buy a blade (usually a Hock) and, depending on the style of plane, a chipbreaker, you take your own wood, and you make it into a plane. You get a very high quality tool when you are done for the price of a blade and a little wood.

Personally, I have some Lie-Nielsens, some Lee Valleys, some of the tuned-up e-bay planes, and some Knight woodies. I love them all and use them all. I pick up the woodies the most, as I really love the feel they give (and great results). But I have to admit, the Lie-Nielsen planes are probably the best-made tools I have ever seen, planes or otherwise. When one of my other planes is struggling with a particular cut of wood, the Lie-Nielsens always come to the rescue. They really are perfect. But you pay the price for it.

I haven't made my own planes yet; that's on the list of things to do soon.

In terms of what planes you "need," that's a trick question. Generally, you need a block plane because it does things other planes can't (because it's small). The rest all do the same thing --- they hold the blade in a fixed position relative to a flat sole. The difference is (1) the length of the sole, and (2) how you chose to shape the blade's edge and adjust the plane's mouth.

Smoothing planes are short planes, so they can ride up and down in any minor dips in the wood and give you a fully planed surface. You generally shape the blade to a small curve with the corners slightly rounded so you don't leave "edge marks" in the wood. You usually keep a very narrow mouth to minimize tearout.

Jointer planes are at the other extreme. They have a long sole, which ensures that the blade remains in a flat plane and does not go up and down with dips in the wood. This allows you to plane a surface flat. You usually have a perfectly flat edge on the blade because when you are edge-jointing, you want a perfectly flat edge and not a concave edge. You tend to have a somewhat wider mouth to accomodate thicker shavings.

Jack planes are just that --- a jack of all trades, master of none. It has a mid-length sole, so you can do a decent job flattening but still ride the peaks and valleys of the wood to get a fully-planed surface.

There are many other types of planes (and many in-between sizes), but these are probably the staples.

In terms of priority, a block plane is usually the most used tool in any woodworking shop, and it is in mine. So that's first. People like the low-angle block planes, but any good block plane will work just fine.

The next priority depends on what you do. If you want to thickness highly-figured guitar backs and sides, a smoothing plane is a good idea. If you want to joint backs and tops, a jack plane or a jointer plane is good. I strongly prefer the jointer because it makes perfect results very simple, but a lot of people do just fine with the jointer.

Although I respect everyone's recommendations, I don't think anyone can offer a meaningful suggestion unless we know your budget, what you building (just guitars, furniture, etc.), what tasks you want to use them for, and what kinds of woods you use (highly figured hardwoods plane very differently than straight-grained mahogany). Give us some more details and I'll be happy to be more specific with some recommendations.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:53 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:09 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Australia
i bought 3 planes
one of those little brass lie nielsen low angle
block planes...which are a bargain
and an old #5 bailey jack plane which is great
but i also bought an old #4 record which i haven't even used...
so far been able to do everything with a #5 jack and a low angle block plane.

the other best investment was the veritas mkII honing system and various water stones.....but a piece of glass or granite will get similar results.

but I would like to get a tiny violin makers plane for braces


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