Official Luthiers Forum!

Having been hugely impressed and fascinated by some of the ukes shown here by Tracy, John Mayes, Komocat and others my interest has been piqued (must keep taking the tablets ). I have some small pieces of wood that have been looking at me sadly wanting to become a musical instrument and I have in mind a baritone uke.

So here's my first batch of questions:

Neck set - is this flat/slight back angled?

Action - what is a reasonable 12th fret string height to aim for? Is the string height at the nut set similarly to on a steel string acoustic?

Intonation - Can this be accomodated by a saddle perpendicular to the strings and a 3mm wide saddle? Looking at David Hurd's fascinating website it looks like this should be the case adding in a compensated extra length of around 3mm to the scale length.

Pinless bridges - I'd love to learn more about making the pinless bridges like Dave Means of Glyph Ukuleles, that Komocat posted in a recent thred where a bead is tied to the string end and seats against the bottom of the bridge in a slot.

Thanks in advance.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Come on you uke builders. Give Dave a hand here.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Dave, the neck is set flat to the body.  The strings should be 3/64" at fret 1 and 5/32" at the 12th fret.  You will need a split saddle or slanted saddle (a la guitars) if you use low g (gCEA) otherwise a straight saddle will do.  If you use a 1/8" thick saddle you can further adjust intonation by filing the saddle top.  I used a pinned bridge, putting a bead on the end of the string. Pleased to answer your questions.  See my post and pics earlier today. Rich

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

Rich,

Thanks. That was a lovely uke you posted. I like the pinned bridge with beads on the end of the strings - very rasta

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I have tried a couple of different methods of string attachment including drilling right through the bridge and attaching small balls to the strings and the more standard method of cutting small indents in the back side of the bridge then cutting a small groove in the indent to accommodated the string. The two baritones I am currently building with both have bridge pins with inlay to match the fret markers. I use a 1/8 inch saddle that is set at about a 3 degree angle. For string height the guys at the uke site usually recommend about 3/32 at the 12th fret. For specific uke luthier discussion try this url http://uketalk.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=7 ab7d0cbed77aa4c29cb55f3c074ea4c
Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the info - and thanks for the link, that forum should keep me occupied for a while I'd love to see pics of your latest builds.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave, Dave, Dave. Now sit down, dark room, put on some very soothing music, Monteverdi Vespas would be good, large glass of malt in hand. Very soon the urges will diminish and by morning it will just seem like a bad dream. UKELELE!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin
Be nice. As soon as I finish the two I am working on I plan on posting pictures. One is Wavy Sapele with a bearclaw sitka spruce top, paua shell soundhole inlay and top and bottom binding of bloodwood, white fiber and ebony. The other is lacewood, with a redwood top and paua shell inlay. I know they are not guitars but they are fun to build and a bariton is basically a scaled down tenor guitar. But the large glass of malt is a good idea any time.
Cheers
Bob

[QUOTE=Colin S] Dave, Dave, Dave. Now sit down, dark room, put on some very soothing music, Monteverdi Vespas would be good, large glass of malt in hand. Very soon the urges will diminish and by morning it will just seem like a bad dream. UKELELE!

Colin[/QUOTE]

Colin,

Morning has broken, my dreams were sweet and the urge still remains

As Bob says it's like a scaled down tenor guitar and it's also an extension of ladder bracing that currently fascinates me. As the baritone uke is tuned DGBE it's also a good opportunity to see what sort of treble string sound I am able to get with nylon strings - plus beads on the end of the strings appeals to my "rasta spirit" mon

Bob - those sound great, I'm looking forward to the pictures.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I've heard of people setting the action as low as .080 inches at the 12th fret. It must be my upbringing playing el cheapo guitars, but I've never been a big fan of super-low action on acoustic intruments. Well, except on electric guitars and instruments with double-course steel strings, like a 12-string guitar or the mandolin.

I've found that a slight back angle is required to get the string height I want at the saddle while still maintaining my preferred action of .100 to .125 inches at the neck-body joint. The angle typically is about 1 to 1.5 degrees.

You'll find it well worth your while to draw it out in full scale, either with a pencil or computer software. I use CorelDraw, but there are many others out there.

Build that baritone — you'll find that it's impossible to play any member of the uke family without getting a silly grin on your face.

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D..

Dave,
Sorry I've been slow in responding. Here are a few observations that I've found. But beware, this is the first uke I've built, and it is a concert sized uke.
1. I set the neck just like a guitar. For some reason, I had a slight curve on the top even though I glued my braces flat in the go-bar. This is how I set my neck angle...take a sliding bevel and have it extend all the way to the bridge location(you can do this on a smaller body, but a baritone may make you build your own sliding bevel that will reach). Move the sliding bevel until it contacts 1 1/2mm to 2mm above the sound board at the front of the bridge location(so there is a 2mm gap here). Transfer this reverse angle to your neck. This will give you the correct height of your bridge if you use a 5-6mm thick fingerboard. Obviously you can adjust this as necessary.
2. My action at the 12th fret is 2.5mm which is very low on a uke. Usually it is around 3mm, and books say 4-5mm. I can't even play it if it is over 3mm. So whatever works for you.
3. My neck joint was a simple 1 bolt insert into a butt jointed neck. Make sure you flatten the area of the neck before putting in the binding, so the neck joint is flat and true to the soundboard. You will get a much better looking joint, and it will be easier to fit.
4. My bridge was 5/16 tall, and my saddle was sticking up about 3/16" above the saddle. It was a little on the tall side, but this helped give it some power. Also, I used an old Martin style bridge. Since it was my first, I thought I would stick to tradition. But my next will probably be a pinned bridge.
Here are some questions I asked Edward Dick regarding compensation and neck angle:
Do you need to compensate for a uke?:
YOU ALWAYS NEED TO COMPENSATE A LITTLE BIT. FOR THE UKE I WOULD ADD APP 1MM (.040"). Maybe you can go 1.5mm for a baritone.

When I put the bridge on the uke and set a straight edge on top of the frets, should the straight edge be even with the top of the bridge, or should it be 1/16" higher than the top of the bridge?
IF ANYTHING IT SHOULD BE LOWER THAN THE BRIDGE BY 1/16 OR SO. TO CALCULATE START WITH THE HEIGHT OF ACTION YOU WANT AT THE 12TH FRET (IN THIS CASE 2-3MM) IF THE NECK ANGLE IS SET SO THAT A STRAIGHT EDGE HITS THE TOP
OF THE BRIDGE YOU NEED TO DOUBLE THAT AMOUNT FOR SADDLE HEIGHT AT THE BRIDGE. 5-6MM SADDLE AT THE BRIDGE IS A BIT TOO HIGH. IF YOU SET IT 1/16 ABOVE THE BRIDGE YOU WOULD NEED AN 8MM HIGH SADDLE - WAY TOO HIGH. THE BRIDGE
DESIGN DICTATES THAT 3 MM IS ABOUT RIGHT. ON GUITARS YOU ALSO HAVE TO FACTOR IN HOW STRING TENSION WILL MOVE THE TOP AND THE NECK BUT ON THE UKE THIS IS NEGLIGIBLE.

Here is a pic of my bridge before polishing it up:

Good luck, and can't wait to see it! You will love playing it, they really are fun.
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Dennis,

Thanks - smiling when playing is the method I like most

Tracy,

Thanks - that's great info.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I gotta go back and look at Red's clip.  Was Tiny Tim smiling when he played Tiptoe Through the Tulips?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=WaddyT] I gotta go back and look at Red's clip.  Was Tiny Tim smiling when he played Tiptoe Through the Tulips?
[/QUOTE]

Maybe not but I bet you were

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave,

If you’re looking for that Ukulele sound you might think of the other sizes: Tenor, Concert, and Soprano. The Baritone is ok but the tuning is like a guitars 4 bottom strings. There are different tunings but the most common tuning for the other sizes is GCEA. I think you would like the tenor with a low G that will give you a broader range. My persona favorite is my soprano with a concert neck and high G tuning. It really has the ukulele sound but still has some room on the fretboard. Here is a link to Herb Ohta Jr’s web site. Herb is a great player and one heck of a nice guy. There are a few songs that play automatically and you can hear others from his discography. Herb Jr. plays a Koloha tenor ukulele. If I can find my camera I’ll post some photos with the pinless bridge.

Herb Ohta Jr.

Philip

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aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

Sorry to highjack the thread.
I'm entering a contest where the rules state that the builder has to obtain a construction grade 2x4 and make something out of it. Anything. It past years folks have turned pieces, made frames, etc. but my thought was a UKE. A guitar would take too much wood.
But I can't find plans. Can anyone point me in a direction? Keeping in mind that I know guitars well but know bub-kiss about ukes. So the more detailed the better. Thanks in advance. Paul

Paul, have a look at hamalima.com.  You can order plans for soprano, concert, tenor and baritone from them.  Rich

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

Paul,

Here are a few.
Hana Lima'Ia for all your needs. Mike and Asa Chock are great guys and are will to aid in many ways. They use a spanish heal style neck. They also have the Ukulele construction manual which is the same as their 10 week class.
Hana Lima 'Ia

The Guild of American Luthiers has a Martin tenor plan.
guild plans

LMI has some.LMI

Ukulele World Ukulele World

Stew Mac has one. Stew Mac

Just don't build one like this because it's too distracting.


Philip

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aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

THE plan for a soprano uke imo...


http://elderly.com/books/items/113-28.htm

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com