Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello, I'm a newbie and have been a woodworker for over 20 years and a guitar player for over 40. I always wanted to build my own acoustic guitars and ukes but never had the time as I am too busy working and trying to run a new business. I have over the years aquired most of the tools and knowledge needed to start. I have lots of tonewood and related material as I have been saving instrument grade koa and local woods (I live on the Big Island of HI, Koa country) I will most likely be self taught as I have read books and studied other training aids etc. Well, since I am a sort of production oriented worker, I wanted to ask any experianced luthier and you  could give me suggestions on how much to make on my "first run" of instruments. I was thinking of starting to build 2-4 instruments at the same time vs one at a time for time saving reasons. as I am a more production focused person and like the idea of making three tops, three backs, as I think I could learn more that way and will try to incorperate changes as I go along when I run into problems.

What do you experts think? Just one, or a few. I intend to have a serious shop (I already do) and my goal is into small production eventually.

 

But a couple of luthiers told me to start with just one instrument and go from start to finish as trying to build more may be overwhelming or if you make mistakes  

Basically by your wording, you wish to build more than one.  So..... go ahead.

You will learn a lot either way.

Welcome to the OLF.

How about you find us all some of that wonderful Koa, I've heard it grows on trees in your part of the world.

Good luck.  We are here if you need us.

Welcome to the forum!!!

Yeah, why not...make a few at a time!! If it was me,I'd start with two, until you get a feel for organising tasks.

Any pics of your wood stash? *hands go clammy*

I don't know your situation or skill level, but your experience as a woodworker will certainly give you a head start compared to many new giutar makers. However, most people probably learn faster by making one at a time for the first few instruments. Even if you are an experienced woodworker you may find many new teqniques and procedures that are unique to instrument making, and the first instruments usually have a few flaws no matter how good you are. If you make more than one you might repeat the same flaws on all the instruments instead of improving with each one. For your first instruments your focus should be on learning rather than production, and for most folks one at a time is more effective use of time (and materials).

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Oh, and by the way; WELCOME!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I would say, make one at a time. With your woodworking experience your not likely to have any real problems putting the guitar together. But all that woodworking experience won't help much when it comes to tone and playability. That you have to learn by building and then evaluating the results. You will learn that faster if you build and evaluate one at a time.

If you want to put your production skill to work, do short runs of some of the basic parts, such as neck and heel blocks, bridges, neck blanks, fingerboards. And then assemble individual guitars one at a time. That's the way I started, and 13 years later I'm still doing it that way. I try to learn form each guitar and make the next one better.

Mark

Welcome to the OLF.

I agree with Arnt, I would start with making one only and document your build with pictures and notes as you go. Problem with building multiples is that you could inadvertantly repeat the same mistakes twice.

Then again being a skilled woodworker you could build gorgeous multiples from the git go.

(Pictures of your Koa stash please -- folks here love pictures)

i will have to second arnt's recommendation. whilst your woodworking background will stand you in good stead as far as your skill in tool usage is concerned, furniture, or turnings or whatever you have produced in your woodworking experience are not the same as making an instrument, if for no other reason than they don't have to produce pleasing sound. and learning to do that on a predictable, repeatable basis is the hardest part of producing good instruments. whilst it is true that the great makers also produce beautiful looking instruments, the factor that makes them great is their ability to produce beautiful sounding instruments over and over again.

so until you get to the stage that you are in control of your sound, i would suggest that you not only stick to building one at a time, but also resist the all to common urge to build a host of different shapes. build a few of the same shape and wood combination and get to the stage that your sound is both predictable and good enough to want it to be repeatable. then start branching out into different wood combinations in that shape, as well as new shapes in the same initial wood combination. that is the time to begin building in multiples of the first shape, whilst you master the second, and so on.

First time out, I would just make one. I built my 2nd and 3rd at the same time and that went well. Now what I do is mass produce some parts. When I'm set up to make necks I will go ahead and make 4 or 5 at a time (not finished but fully machined and rough shaped). When I'm geared up to make bridges, I make 10 at a time, etc.

Welcome to the forum.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Welcome.....although I have limited experience, I agree with Ron.  I would build my first one solo and then ramp up to a couple at a time.  I am just starting #2 (and #3), but since I built the first one using a book for a guide (Cumpiano/Natelson), I don't think I would have been much further ahead by building more at the same time.  Actually, I think I would have made the same mistakes on all of them since I really had no idea what I was doing. 

Post lots of pics for us as you progress - we love to see pictures....

Laurie

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

When I think back to my first acoustic, I can't imagine making those mistakes on 2 or 4 at once.
You are welcome to it, but for the first at least, one at a time is likely a best idea.
Once you get into it, you will find yourself making parts for the next 4 builds etc..
Have fun, take your time and Welcome to the OLF!

Wade

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

For you first, I would recommend starting with just one. Like many others have stated, in time you will find yourself making more parts for future builds. I started batch building last year with 3 at one time. I have a small shop so when I am set up to do a particular function it just started making sense to do more than one.

Welcome to the OLF

Mike

WOW! What a quick response from all of you! Thanks for making me feel like part of the fam.

I will take heart to all of your suggestions as they all make sense and will probably go with a single to start as I will make mistakes. In the past year I have started resawing uke and guitar backs and sides etc. and wasted A LOT of koa/mango until I felt comfortable with that seemingly simple process. Lucky I have a lot of it to "experiment with"

Oh, forgot to mention that I am a sawyer (woodmizer LT40) and do urban harvesting of our local trees, mostly mango and lychee or anything that is not rubbish. Was doing koa for 6 years and kept all the music grade stuff for me.

Due to your requests, I have managed to post an icon of some of my stash next to my ID.

Aloha and I will be back!

CP

 

  

Goodness -- if there were a competition amongst the non-tonewood suppliers on the OLF for the most wood on hand - I suspect you'd win hands down!

I think I know a few folks here who could help you with your Koa inventory

[QUOTE=Anthony Z]

I think I know a few folks here who could help you with your Koa inventory [/QUOTE]

Yup!! *grins*

that is most definitely not a stash!!!

that is a hoard!!! a treasure trove!!! a retirement fund even!!!

If you are asking whether you would have more fun building more than one at a time, it sounds like you've already decided that, and I don't think any of us here can add anything.

But if you are asking whether it is a good idea to build more than one at a time your first time around, the answer is no. There is a long and steep learning curve to building guitars. I can't imagine any situation in which it would be wise to set up an assembly line to build lots of something (guitars or anything else) before you learn how to build it well in the first place.

I'd build one, then start doing them in trios or quartets if that's what
you're eventually after. The first really is a learning experience. Your
experience will definitely help you in fit, but not much in voicing. I'd look
into John Mayes' two voicing DVD's.

[QUOTE=James Orr]I'd build one, then start doing them in trios or quartets if that's what
you're eventually after. The first really is a learning experience. Your
experience will definitely help you in fit, but not much in voicing. I'd look
into John Mayes' two voicing DVD's. [/QUOTE]

 Again, thanks for everyone's imput as it is really pointing me in the right direction. I will be on this forum OFTEN!

James, I had bought John Mayes complete set of DVD some months ago and watch it over and over and it has really helped me grasp and understand some of the basics. This is coming from my perspective of not building a single instrument and reading for me at my age is just a prelude to sleep. Johns tapes have given me the confidence to tackle this process and is actually fun to watch.

Welcome to the OLF!  There are lots of us that are pretty new to all this.  I am building my first too, so I really don't have an opinion on what you should do.  I'd say it all depends on your confidence and skills.  Oh yeah, your knowledge of instrument construction techniques.  What ever you decide, you'll get all your questions answered here.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hey,

You guys are really supportive, and that being what I notice about all luthiers and their willingness to share their knowledge and passion.

What does "Walnut" mean? 

[QUOTE=ckpung]

Hey,

You guys are really supportive, and that being what I notice about all luthiers and their willingness to share their knowledge and passion.

What does "Walnut" mean? 

[/QUOTE]

 

As far as I can tell, it is just a level that is driven by your number of posts, kind of like an experience meter for the forum.    I just went from Walnut to Mahogany a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't notice what my numbers were at the time.   I think they should have your number of builds posted with your name too, but that would be hard to track I suppose.....enough work associated with this free forum already!

Any plans for your first build?  Dread?Om? wood selection?

Laurie

 

 

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

Seems to be that Walnut is 1 - 49 posts, Mahogany = 50-99, Cocobolo = 100 - 499, Koa = 500 - 999, BRW = 1000 +.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars