Official Luthiers Forum!

Well I finally got around to recording both of them, so here they are.

Technically they are 000's because they've got 24.9" scales but we designate them OMS or OML (for long scale)

For those who don't know Trev and Cheryl they are identical guitars, one with parabolic braces and the other with scalloped.

Specs are:

Backs and sides - EIR
Top - Englemann Spruce
Bindings - Figured Maple
Neck - Mahog/Maple/Blackwood/Black Fibre
Paua Purfling (which don't do a lot for me personally but we wanted them as demo stock)
K & K pure Western mini pickups
Finish - Ubeaut Hard Shellac
Neck finish - Briwax

The recording was done with a single Rode NT5 condenser, 5 " from the 14th fret with no EQ on a Pro Tools Digi 002 Rack system.

The playing is very dodgey because it's me
but I think you'll get the idea of the sound difference of the two guitars.
You can hear them here.

Trev and Cheryl


And some pics














Cheers

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

Bob, those pictures look fab!! I especially love the one with dry ice (or is that cigar smoke )

I'll be sure to listen to the clips when I access a computer today with a deserving soundcard and speakers.

It’s always hard to listen to music through the internet, and make a good observation of what
you are listening to. However, I would say that the most noticeable difference was that Cheryl had
a fuller or deeper sound. I’m sure there are more subtle differences, that can be heard when you
are sitting right next to Trev and Cheryl.

They are both very beautiful guitars in every way!

I am wondering, are there any other differences other than, Trev has parabolic braces, and Cheryl
has scalloped braces?

BTW, you did a great job with the pics! And, are those didgeridoo’s in one of the them?

Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Bob,

Nice one. They both sound nice Cheryl sounds to have more bass focus and more "opened up". Have they been played for about the same amount of time? It would be interesting to hear some fingerpicking played higher up the neck with more mids and trebles on each guitar.

It would be interesting to keep doing sismilar recordings at future time intervals in the future if you still have access to both guitars.

Nice guitars

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

They both sound wonderful, but to my ears, Trev has a slightly darker, punchier tone with more character and bell-like tones in the trebles.

Cheryl sounds sweeter/trebly with more volume and balance...

I like these guitar comparison tests!! Thanks for posting it!

Thanks all.

Robert we made a conscious effort to keep them as similar as possible. The only difference is the bracing.

And yes that is a didg in there.

Dave - the parabolic one has had the most playing I've done three gigs with it now whereas the scalloped guitar has not had much playing at all.

The parabolic also has a lower action with a few string buzzes that I tolerate because I have quite a weak left hand due to a medical condition.

Which is why Hesh you are correct in that most of the playing was in simple chords. I just can't shift 'em around like I used to.

I have been lining up a friend to play them so I'll try and get hold of him in the next few days and throw a few more recordings up.

If you put the recording on a decent stereo you'll hear the Cheryl the Scallop gets quite boomy with that close mic placement.

I'd guarantee that any recording engineer would prefer to record Trev specifically for the reasons you mention Hesh.

On the other hand every guitarist locally who has played them prefers Cheryl 'cause she's got a bigger bottom.

Cheers

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

What I heard was that Trev was more focused sounding than Cheryl. Cheryl had more balance though, and would be a nicer strumming guitar, while Trev might be a nicer picking guitar. Cheryl had more overtones as well, making for what I felt was a richer sound, and less brash than Trev. Hesh was right on target when he said that Trev has better note seperation though. I can see Cheryl being used for Celtic fingerstyle, whereas Trev might be better for Chet Atkins' type of playing style.

Sure are some sweet sounding and looking guitars Bob!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I can play the didg....man the circular breathing is a challenge!!!

I had one for years until a few years ago, and now I play "the didg" with the thick carboard tubing at work and scare al the students....

Bob...Can you tell me what width of Paua purfling you used? (It looks wider than standard .063 - maybe it's the adjacent lines)

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Dave
Milton, ON

to my ear Trev sound softer but more complex whereas Cheryl sound louder but less complex tone I like Hesh would pick Trev I can always mike Trev and still keep the complex  sound 

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Zac

Anchorage Alaska

Finshed my 1st! See #1 here

Bob,
Lovely looking and sounding guitars! I really enjoyed the side by side sound comparison. Can you comment on the weights of the braced soundboards?

[QUOTE=Anthony Z]I especially love the one with dry ice (or is that cigar smoke[/QUOTE]
Neither. It always does that right after Bob is done playing it!

Bob, I don't get quality sound through the little speakers here, so though I could hear a difference I really can't make a judgement call on which system is superior. They both sound good, though, and of course they both look great!

Beautiful guitars, Bob! Thanks for the sound clips...I love to hear these comparisons and it goes a long way in training my ear.

Both guitars sound great for different reasons and preferences. To my ear Cheryl sounds brighter and has more clarity and seems looser while Trevor's tone is softer and less bright and seems to be tighter. Trevor has a punchiness that appeals to some while Cheryl has a more Celtic-like personality. The tone of Cheryl is more appealing to my tastes but then again, it's all so subjective.

It will be interesting to repeat this in a few months and see if Trevor has loosened up.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Bob, great photos and lovely guitars. As for the sound comparison, I really like Cheryl (strummed and finger picked). As JJ said, taste is subjective, but I've always preferred a heavier bottom myself (I generally play in open D tuning). However, I also would be interested in hearing another recording after they both have a chance to open up. Thanks for providing the comparison for us.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Gary has been lurking around here a while.  Welcome Gary! 

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Sam - I'll keep my eyes open for a termite infested Gum Tree for you. Or try some plumbers pipe. It must have better resonant qualities than cardboard.

The Paua purfling is 2.5mm (.098") Dave. I got it from Martin Loskot at Australian Mother of Pearl Supplies. ( one of our sponsors)

Gary I didn't weigh the top but it it is fairly stiff Englemann, thicknessed to 2.5mm and perimeter sanded in the lower bout to around 2.3mm. The braces were all 6mm (.24)wide by by 12mm (.47) tall.

Unfortunately I dont have a pic of the bracing on the scalloped guitar but here's a pic of the parabolic.



Nothing too out of the ordinary except the tone bars are quite short.

I think picking between the two really is a matter of personal preference and playing style. I really think Trev would be better in the studio.

I'll definitely give them six months and record them again to see what changes have ocurred.

I'm going to record all of our instruments from here on in so we have an aural reference point to go with the pics and measurements that we record during construction.

Thanks for the positive comments everyone.

Cheers.

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

Hesh and Waddy,
Sorry for the confusion--I accidentially logged in with a user name I registered long ago but never used.

they both sound great....
i really like the character of cheryl but i'd be equally as happy with trev
I wish you had some pics of the cheryl bracing