Official Luthiers Forum!

One of my builds is a African Mahogany (Sapele) body. I have read in some of the posts that most people stain their mahogany before finishing it. I will be using zpoxy as a filler then nitro on it, but I am wondering what kind of stain you all are using for Mahogany?

Another note, this body will have curly maple binding for contrast. How do you go about keeping the stain from leeching into the maple and the top?

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Reguards,

Ken H

As Todd pointed out , that Martin look is unique. I can tell you that they use Sizing , then seal, Once sealed they use a stained filler. This is a filler that is mineral based and about the color and texture of melted chocolate.    
   I don't use Zpoxy but I use catalized lacquer on the neck as martin and that is done differently. They will stain with Ebony , then a dark walnut stain and fill. Then seal. This will get that dark muddy color that matches EIR.
Don't use the ebony to match the mahogany. Experiment with scraps to see what effect you get. Also sanding can influence the outcome. I will use 320 sandpaper with the stain and kind of use the sandpaper as a stain in rag
john

For my money, nothing captures the richness of mahogany (think 18th century museum pieces) like the traditional chemical treatment of dilute potassium dichromate solution. I've used it on reproduction furniture for years (typically under FP). This jewellry box gives you some idea.

It is not a stain so it doesn't mask anything. (looks like orange Koolaid & reacts with the tannins in the wood to bring classic red/brown). Water based, doesn't blotch, easy to use/adjust, POISON!!!!

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Dave
Milton, ON

I also used the Colortone concentrate liquid stain.  I stained, wash coated, pore filled, then sprayed.  It worked well.  If I remember correctly, I mixed 75 drops mahogany, 50 drops tobacco brown to 1 oz water. That mixture of mahogany red and tobacco brown got me this coloring on a mahogany d****n*****:

i've never been a great fan of the muddy martin look, and rather like the look of unstained/dyed mahogany. if you want to change the colour a tinted finish using th liquid dyes will give a darker appearance without killing the natural highlights of the wood.

WOW loads of choices!

I like the look of the Potassium Dichromate box, but I wonder how it will look on the Sapele? This is some figured wood, so maybe it will do better than an actual dye??

Is it necessary to mask off the Maple trim if I use this stuff?

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Reguards,

Ken H

I've used Potassium Dichromate on some of my mahogany furniture with great success. Basically it just oxidizes the outermost layer of the wood, which time and light would eventually do anyway. Think of it as aging the wood 10 years in about 10 seconds.

[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars]

I like the look of the Potassium Dichromate box, but I wonder how it will look on the Sapele? This is some figured wood, so maybe it will do better than an actual dye??

Is it necessary to mask off the Maple trim if I use this stuff?

[/QUOTE]

Potassium dichromate turns maple a very deep yellow color.

I haven't used it on sapele, but I would bet the results would be similar to mahogany. Does sapele oxide to a darker color over time?

Stain, yech. Potassium dichromate is beautiful, but very dangerous to work with.

Here's a very easy and beautiful finish that will give you an incredible rich red-brown look for mahogany, but it does take some time. I do this with furniture; I haven't tried it with guitars, but there's no reason it wouldn't work equally well.

Prep the guitar for finish, sanding it to whatever grit tickles your fancy. Then let it sit for a few weeks. If it's not too hot where you live, let it sit in the sun as much as possible; if it gets hot, you could get some unfortunate warping or cracking, so keep in indoors. Waiting a few weeks is painful, but the wood will darken and get a very rich color as it oxidizes.

After a few weeks, apply danish oil, let it sit fifteen minutes, then wipe the excess off with a rag. Let it sit for a day or two. Then apply danish oil again, but this time sand the well-oiled guitar with 320 or 400 grit paper, creating a slurry with the sanding dust and the oil on the surface of the mahogany. Work it into the pores well. Let it sit fifteen minutes, then wipe the excess off, trying hard not to wipe it out of the pores. Let it sit a day, then repeat as many times as you can stand.

Once you've finished with the Danish oil, let the oil cure a week or two, and then you should be able to put a sealer coat of shellac on it and finish however you like.

The combination of the exposure to air for several weeks and the oil finish is wonderful on mahogany, far better than any stain.

The potassium dichromate would probably be even better, but make sure you follow all the abundant precautions you need to take to work with those chemicals.

Kelby and others-

Thanks for the info on how to use Potassium Dichromate but let me say this about it - IT CAN CAUSE CANCER. Be very careful using this stuff. I have a friend who is a doctor and she let me read some literature about it - it is nasty stuff that can kill you. Don't get it on your skin and don't breath in wood dust that has come in contact with it. A small amount can cause problems - it doesn't take prolonged exposure.

Sorry to be a doomsayer, I just don't want my friends getting sick from this stuff. That being said, nothing puts a prettier color/patina on mahogany than Potassium Dichromate.

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

I happened to have an old solution of Potassium Dichromate handy, so I dipped a sliver of sapele and a piece of mahogany into it and let them dry on a scrap of curly maple. After they dried, I wet with ethanol to see how they might look under finish. The top piece is sapele and it certainly darkens quite a bit with the potassium dichromate, much like the mahogany below. You can see what it does to the maple as well.

Others' warnings are justified. In powdered form it is extraordinarily toxic if you breathe it so at a minimum use a respirator when making a solution and gloves when working with said solution.

The picture above really doesn't do justice to the effect of P-D on striped Sapele (good experiment, though!). P-D gives it a three-dimensional shimmer and richness that's quite beautiful. That being said, I'd try something else if you're not solidly set up with proper ventilation, heavy gloves, chemical-proof goggles and a cartridge respirator. Then there's the issue of disposal....

I guess that just about answers all of the questons about DP. Thanks for going to the trouble of showing me what to expect!

I tried the StewMac dyes on an electric guitar and didnt have much luck with getting the color just right. It might be my technique...

I'll have to go shopping and see if I can find the DP locally.

By the way, here is what I am working on... I only have one side of the bling in right now, so I am still working on it... You can see the figure to the wood though

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Reguards,

Ken H

Man oh man, that's going to be beautiful.
The top is very David Russell Young-ish in its look.
He was my first real inspiration on steel strings.
Keep us posted for sure!

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

A few notes on Potassium dichromate, etc...I have used it a few times.
Playing with the concentration could possibly avoid the 'yellow maple' effect to some extent, while still getting the mahogany stained.
You should rinse off the excess dichromate- the dark color in the mahogany is a chemical change and will not 'wash out'. Excess chemical on the surface can be a bad thing.
BTW, I notice that woodfinishingenterprises.com sells dichromate. (Good place, BTW)
Another possibility is to use potassium permanganate, which will have a similar effect on mahogany. It's less effective, less dangerous, but messier- purple color. It is used to backwash ion-exchange columns in home water filters used to remove iron from drinking water. Your local water treatment (Culligan?) place should be able to point you in the right direction.

Some of the old-time finishing manuals have lots of good info on this stuff. Plenty of experimentation on scrap is recommended!

Cheers
John

This is an example of using Minwax Red Mahogany stain on mahogany --

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC