Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey guys,

I posted this on a couple of other forums but I wanted to share with you, since I know some of you were there.

Please keep in mind that I came to Montreal with a fat wallet (with the missus keeping me in check) and my guitar player's hat on...

Well, it was a much better run affair this year than last. It was nice to see the boutique builders segregated from the rest of the MMMIS and given some decent space and privacy. The cover charge also weeded out the purely test pilots.

A few more soundproof booths could have helped BUT at least they addressed the issue of making them small enough so that they couldn't be shared with competing players. Proper-height chairs would have been better than stools for those of us who like to have both feet on the ground or at least, given the option...

As for the guitars themselves, I found it very difficult to assess their attributes, beyond craftsmanship and feel, since most that I played were less than a month old and weren't even close to opening up sonically. I suspect many sales were on builder reputation alone. Surprisingly, I was less than impressed with some of the big guns at the show: the tone of their guitars wasn't even remotely desirable to me, as a fingerstylist. Way too heavy on the bass. No sale. Some that I liked last year, came up short this time 'round. Strange, maybe it was the weather...

It seems I missed a few tables too. Al Carruth? It might have been because I blew by anybody with mostly archtops - no interest.

Anyway the good news was the three guitars that really clicked for me:

* Sergei de Jonge's Jazz Nylon with the adjustable neck
* Tim McKnight's Hickory OM
* John Osthoff's 000-12 Blackwood cut-away

Wonderful tone, super-clean craftmanship, a pleasure to talk to: either the builder or one of their associates.

Warren, did you happen to play any of Steve Spodaryk's parlor guitars? They were the ones that looked like old Stauffer styled gits...

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Thanks, Warren. Interesting report. So, did you buy one?

Hmmm, I was right across from Serge, but the most prominant guitar I had was an archtop, so maybe you just glazed over. Hey, it was at a jazz festival, right? I had to leave the 'Autumn' classical at home: didn't want to risk the BRW at the border. Next year I'll have some more interesting stuff for you to look at. As for 'new', well, that's going to be par for the course at a show like that. Show goers are generally pretty picky, and things that look shopworn don't get played much, so there's a tough balance to find.

From the maker's end, and this was pretty nearly universal as far as I can tell, many felt that it was the best-run show we'd ever been to. Those sound booths may have been less than perfect in some ways, but they were _there_. The last time I went to H'burg or Newport there wasn't anything as good. Most of the time it was possible to find an empty one right away, and they all had amps in them for the plug-in players. The staff, even the kids who did the running around, all seemed to take a real pleasure in finding ways to make our lives more pleasant, and if there were any issues they would address them immediately. It was symptomatic of that attitude that every once in a while somebody would come around with cold bottled water, in case you wanted some.

In talking with the organizer it seems as though next year's festival will be even better. He has already booked a larger room one floor up, so that the exhibit, performances, and workshops will all be on the same floor. The higher ceiling should also help with the one problem I had with the booths; poor ventilation.

Attendance was very good, as far a I could tell. They didn't do much more than break even, apparently, but that was because they spent so much on magazine ads, to establish the brand. If they can keep it up at the same level, even without any improvements, I think it will soon be seen as a major show. AND, there's the Jazz festival too! The main problems: getting through the traffic at the bridge, finding a room (the organizers took care of that for us; I mean for 'civilians') and US Customs going home. Hey, nothing's perfect....   

Interestingly I find that the environmental changes have a major effect on my Morgan OM -
Its a fine instrument, its the first (modern) upscale acoustic I have owned.... and although I realize not too many people are overly familiar with David Ianonne's work here at the OLF - it really is superb and tight and clean!
I mean this little OM can literally sound like a different guitar from one day to the next, a different nice guitar but a different guitar.
Likewise my current guest has a crapola acoustic, it sounds pretty much the same no matter what...it almost seems that the finer the instrument, the easier it is to guage these subtle changes in nuance...
So mabye the humidity or atmospheric pressure at certain guitar shows can really put a damper on test driving instruments... Id be interested to know what effect the weather can have on the sound of instruments, Ive noticed it quite alot over the years....
Glad you found some instruments that spoke to you - what a nice array of guitars it sounds like you got to play.
Cheers
Charliewood

Al, Were there hassles at the border or just long lines? I hope you're posting this from home and not from a stool straddling the Canada/US border. If it was a hassle, what would you have done differently to make things easier?

[QUOTE=CarltonM] Thanks, Warren. Interesting report. So, did you buy one?[/QUOTE]

"(with the missus keeping me in check)" Let's just say I'm in a multiphase negotiation...

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Warren, did you happen to play any of Steve Spodaryk's parlor guitars? They were the ones that looked like old Stauffer styled gits...[/QUOTE]

I definitely saw those but didn't play one 'cause I couldn't get close to the table (at the time). I was kind of shuffled through in the midst of one of the major waves on Saturday.

I did play a little parlour-sized guitar from one guy who even "antiqued" it to make it appear old. That was pretty neat and sounded very good too.

We spend more than two hours in line at the border, but there were no real 'hassles'. The irony was that we left ASAP when the show closed up to try to get home early, but once we got in line at Customs only about three cars pulled in behind us. We'd have done as well to have taken in some music and gotten a good meal first. Live and learn, I hope....

Warren, I wish you would have stopped by just to say hello. I was one of those dark-sided archtop builders that you avoided. And mine are electric to boot!
My impressions: best show I've ever been to. As Al said, they really know how to take care of us. If Hburg is anything like '05, Montreal will be my one show each year.
No hassles in customs. I figure they owed me for last year.

Paul,

Sorry about that. But, I did save you from a lamblasting from da missus for painting your guitars. i.e. She walked right up to Andrew White and slapped him on the hand for having a blue guitar. It was a funny WTF moment.

I'm really glad to hear that the vendors were treated very well. I got a kick out of the official photographer who was running around retrieving the guitars, with white cotton gloves on, to take them to the photo shoot. Talk about respect.

Cheers,
Warren

[QUOTE=Pwoolson] Warren, I wish you would have stopped by just to say hello. I was one of those dark-sided archtop builders that you avoided. And mine are electric to boot!
My impressions: best show I've ever been to. As Al said, they really know how to take care of us. If Hburg is anything like '05, Montreal will be my one show each year.
No hassles in customs. I figure they owed me for last year. [/QUOTE]

I loved the show!
spent an hour getting in to Canada because they pulled me aside as soon as I showed my Canadian Invoice Papers with 5 guitars on it!
But they just asked questions -stamped the papers and sent me on my way!
I was approached at the show with a badge wielding customs guy!
Asked me if any of my guitars where for sale!
And if so I would pay a 16% tax!Provential & federal tax!
I'd already talked to a broker and he told me all was fine!
But this guy said he was wrong!
So i said there where for display!
I refused a sale sunday because of this!
Told the interested buyer I'd ship the guitar from my shop in the states!
But he wanted to take it home NOW!

Over all the show was well organized-great security-the most helpful staff-(natalie)HOT!
The Hyatt staff and location is fantastic!!
The table size,sound proof rooms,helped with the whole experience.
Free water and juices to the makers!(NICE)
Fantastic party on Sat. night with great food and drink-
BUT the atomosphere from the makers and staff made it even better!!!!
More fun then is legal!
This should be the show to attend on the East coast !
it will be as big as Healdsberg soon!
OH -The best food in the world!
The prettiest ladies also!

Mike

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Mike Collins

Yes, I took my fair share of shellacing from various people at the show. When they started slapping me around for the painted I'd just turn around the black Limba guitar so that they could see the back and all was forgiven.

[QUOTE=WarrenG] Paul,

Sorry about that. But, I did save you from a lamblasting from da missus for painting your guitars. i.e. She walked right up to Andrew White and slapped him on the hand for having a blue guitar. It was a funny WTF moment.

I'm really glad to hear that the vendors were treated very well. I got a kick out of the official photographer who was running around retrieving the guitars, with white cotton gloves on, to take them to the photo shoot. Talk about respect.

Cheers,
Warren

[QUOTE=Pwoolson] Warren, I wish you would have stopped by just to say hello. I was one of those dark-sided archtop builders that you avoided. And mine are electric to boot!
My impressions: best show I've ever been to. As Al said, they really know how to take care of us. If Hburg is anything like '05, Montreal will be my one show each year.
No hassles in customs. I figure they owed me for last year. [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]

Good to hear that everyone made it back home safe and sound. This was the first BIG show I ever attended, so for me, it was really something else. The fellowship, genuine sharing of thoughts and ideas amongst those who were there was a real treat. I had the privilage of being situated across from Brent McElroy, next to John Kingslight and Victor German (hands down winner for coolest handlebar moustache), and diagonally from Bruce Sexauer. Woolson wasnt too far away, but he did complain a lot about Sexauer's kid taking all his candy - she ate about 4 lbs worth of suckers over three days !!!

Todd Rose stopped by a couple times, and I had a nice chat with Mike Collins as well about finishes (hey most of us are all looking for that holy grail of finsihes, or at least someone else to do it for them right )

My wife Marion and I hung out some with Paul Woolson at the Saturday evening builders party, we arrived a bit late as we had to see New Orleans bluesman Bryan Lee and his band perform at the Jazz fest. After agreeing that we were all completely baked, adjourning early seemed the best idea, and we headed out. Woolson only had to go up the elevator as he opted to stay in the Hyatt, we however had a 15 minute walk - uphill to our more modest accomodations.

One small mistake we made was not planning to stay over and drive back Monday - we left Montreal about 630 or so, and pulled into the garage at home around 1245 - bit of a haul. Next year will be different.

I also had three of my students drive up, and one of them even tried to con the topwood guy out of my unpaid for stash - he told him I wasnt coming back and said he could have them - yeah right

It was a great time, and what a treat to finally meet some of the other builders and friends from the OLF - till we meet again ....

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Taking Warren’s lead here is a post (with some stuff added and some stuff taking out) from another forum. Anyway there are lots of pics …

Ok, here are few shots from the show, I know you probably want more guitar shots, and I am sure many of those will be coming (some are on my film camera), but hopefully you can get an idea of how fun this show was for both the exhibitors and the players.
Here is a look at the jazz fest in the morning. We were on our way over to the show from our hotel. We were only a block away from the show and the jazz fest. This is main “outdoor” stage for the jazz fest. There were 5 other significant outdoor stages (free to attend) but also smaller duo’s playing all over the place.



Just over from the main stage was this smaller stage that was in front of the mall entrance. You could get to the show through here.



Here is a look inside the mall atrium. We were just up the escalators and over in the Hyatt’s conference rooms. From here you can see one of the 100’s of banners (ok this one was the big) one advertising the show. We were also advertised in all the jazz fest literature too. Just below the banner was another show (the Salone des Instruments Musique et des Musciens de Montreal.) This had more commercial exhibits including a really cool Apple Computer recording system, etc etc.



Once you made it up into the show, there were a bunch of us displaying our stuff there. Here is shot of my table with assistant working very hard. Directly behind me was Brent McElroy. Back against the wall were Rich Davis, Tom Ribbecke and Linda Manzer. What you can also see in the upper right corner is one of the “studios” that would allow you to take a guitar into a quiet room. There were 10 of these set up. They each had and amp (not that my guitars needed them) and they worked quite well. They did get a little warm during the day and sometimes it was difficult to find and open one but from the most part you could get a player into a quiet area without much effort.



Here is a shot of Montreal local (and friend) Michael Greenfield and his wonderful guitars, His implementation of a spalted rosette was exquisite. Here he is talking with David Berkowitz and Peter Hopkins (in back) is getting ready for the influx.




Just down from Michael was my very good friend Steve Spodaryk’s table. Steve has been recently specializing in parlor guitar based on some of the very early Stauffer-style Martins (1830’s.) A couple of years ago Steve and I got to see some of the Stauffer-style ordinals from that era up close. Both the originals and Steve’s implementation of these beauties are incredible.



Here is a shot of me and my good friend Tim McKnight. Tim was just up the isle from me and had a couple of wonderful instruments with him. You can see Mary (sort of, on the left) doing all the work, while Tim and I goofed-off.



Here are some of Woolson’s beauties:



I am not sure why the only shot taken that came out blurry had Paul Woolson in it!



Here is Tony K:



And Todd Rose:





Our show closed at 6:00, which gave us some time to get out and see Montreal a bit. Here is a look at the jazz festival (looking out from the main stage) during the day. We got to see some of the shows in the evenings.



Here is look from out from our Hotel (the opposite direction of the Jazz fest) of “old Montreal.” We had the opportunity to get over there for a nice dinner at one of the sidewalk cafes too.



Warren,
Wow, I am not sure who else’s guitars you got to play, but to be in near the top of any list with that caliber of builders is really flattering. Thanks for taking the time to come and play my guitars.

The show overall was great. It was well attended by “real” players who knew something about hand-built guitars. From the player’s perspective, I think the show will only get better too.
Thanks to all the Montreal Guitar Show staff the did a wonderful job on the show and Thanks to all the fine folks of Montreal who quickly switched to English when they would get a “stupid blank stare” when we were greeted in French.

I need some rest ... in other words time to get back to the shop.

Oh BTW,

I did get to hang out with Mike Collins and Al Carruth too. (and many others) It is always fun to catch-up. Sorry I did not get any digital pics of those guys.

We had a great time meeting many OLF'ers and players from other forums. I got to hang with my buds (Woolson, Osthoff, Baranick, Sexauer, Lewis, Dunn and many more...). It was good to see all of them and to meet Tony Karol, Brent Mc, Steve S, Alain L. Todd R, Mike C. and many others whom I have only known on line.

This was our second year to exhibit and we have already committed to return again next year. There were rumors of several guitars that were sold there which is positive news for us compared to last years sparse sales. There was even a $50K guitar sold (please don't ask whose it was) which was encouraging to all of us.

We are off to Nashville tonight so our crazy season is only beginning. Bonjeur' until the next one which only will be bigger and better yet!

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

50k ?!  What who ? :)

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Build log

I re-read my original post and I may have come off a little too negative. The show itself was fantastic and educational. I even served as a French translator a couple of times. Ha ha!

I learned alot about myself as a player/shopper: what I look and listen for in a new guitar. I realised that the feel is way more important than I previously thought. I'm pretty adaptable, but apparently not THAT much.

There were a few guitars that had wonderful tone and balance but I couldn't get my fretting hand comfortable with the neck. Dea was really excited (#1 fan) a few times, but I had to break it to her afterwards that they were difficult to play and probably wouldn't get used much.

I was really excited to try a few baritones too, as I had previously played only one from Grit Laskin. I know there's a lot of buzz amongst players surrounding baritone guitars so I was not surprised to see builders offering these models.

I questioned myself on its usefulness for my own playing. I felt I might get bored with it pretty quickly as only a limited number of tunes I know lend themselves well to this instrument (learn more songs!). Also, it seemed the body really needed to be larger (perhaps uncomfortably so?) than what I played to capture the tone with a comparable amount of volume. I don't know.

It was a tricky balance of attributes to consider in attempting to find "the ONE". It certainly wasn't first and foremost in my mind when I built my own - which I love dearly - but I've come to recognize their importance as a buyer. It was exciting to see and play other peoples' interpretations of the guitar - and the few that struck a chord with me.

Overall, I can't wait 'til next year, especially if my negotiation falls through this time 'round.

Well, the Montreal show was my first and I have to say I was very impressed by the staff and arrangements. I did go to the Newport show just to look around and as far as I can tell the setup was much better in Montreal. I also really enjoyed talking to other builders and members of the OLF. I brought my 12 year old daughter to help out, although she spent most of her time with Bruce Sexauer's daughter in the mall, which was good. I did find out at the party that she was going around the show grilling some of the builders. Maybe you were one of them.

I had great luck at the border. I crossed both ways at the 1000 Islands bridge and it took me about 2 minutes to get into Canada and about 30 seconds to get out. The icing on the cake was that I got great feedback from a lot of players and I made a sale!

My only suggestion would be that the show knock off at 3:00 on Sunday to allow for those traveling home then.

Randy

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Randy Muth
RS Muth Guitars Website
RS Muth Guitars Blog
Facebook Fan Page

Hey warren,

not sure if you dropped by my table or not, but I think a lot of guitar playing volume was simply lost in that room - all carpet, too many people and other noise around etc.

One of my students just left a few minutes ago, and before he did he wanted to try the baritone as he had never played one before, so into the living room we went - this one of mine is easily as loud as any other std guitar, and I think its actually louder ... you just couldnt tell in that room (at the fest), or even in one of the booths - I was demonstrating the siddeport and what it does for both the player and the room sound, and it didnt seem to make much difference in the small carpet covered booths - they just soaked up tone. In my living room the difference with the port covered or open makes a HUGE difference, its like someone turned on an amp.

I am almost thinking it may be worthwhile to have a room at the hotel (I stayed at another one), just to take potential clients to and have it quiet for true testing and evaluation. You pretty much couldnt tell the difference in there from one to another if they were somewhat similar. Any nuances were certainly lost.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Hi Tony,

I certainly dropped by your table and enjoyed playing your instruments - the strength of your baritone is the one that kept me waffling on the issue. You may very well be right about the sound getting lost in the room. Because I was having a difficult time really hearing the guitars, Dea became my sounding board so I deferred all tonal impressions to her. We became like Siskel (RIP) and Ebert: I'd talk feel and she'd talk sound, as we moved around the showroom.

Cheers,
Warren

And ...

... in my previous post, I forgot to mention getting to know Randy Muth too. That was a pleasure too. Randy, your suggestion of knocking off at 3:00 may be ok, or if you can, just stay the extra night. I am glad we did not travel back on show closing night. We were anxious to get home, but taking the extra day was worth it.

Right on JohnO .... definitely planning on staying over next year, plus you get to see the last night of the jazzfest ... man, Monday I was just BEAT after the drive late Sunday...

And thanks Warren .. I probably would know you to see you, just cant place the name and face together ...

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I asked about David Carriere's work-in-progress.