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I took these pictures last month whilst on a rush visit to the Music room at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. My wife insisted that we hurry along to the Princess Diana clothes exhibit and I never got a chance to take down the detailsbut the pictures are still interesting.

Take a look at the spacing of the growth rings on the sound boards. These makers didn’t seem to worry too much about spacing or else they didn’t have the material to choose from. But considering these instruments are two to three hundred years old and probably made in central Europe I would have thought German spruce would have been in plentiful supply.

Beautifully made none the less.

Interesting pictures, I hope you got permission from the V&A to take them .

I do a fair bit of restoration work on instuments such as these from several museums, and most of the soundboards would be rejected on cosmetic grounds by many builders today, but that wasn't the criterion that was used for their selection then. Also, rememeber, that tonewood suppliers didn't exist then, they just acquired the wood that was available, most often than not the top would be made from two (or more) pieces that didn't match. But one thing you can be certain of is that the wood used was of remarkable quality for it's purpose.

Wood was selected mainly for its cross grain stiffness and the way it felt in the hand. Just as guitars should be selected with a blindfold on, so should top wood. Many builders today prefer slightly wider grain, often the AA board will be a better one sonically than the Master grade.

Don't assume that they were made in central Europe, London was a major centre of guitar making in the 18th century, and the lute looks like or after a Venere from Italy. The Baroque guitar (with the parchment rose) in the bottom picture looks to be by, or after, Rene Voboam of Paris of around 1640.

The top two look like they could be London guitars (though many were made by immigrants from Europe).   Many of the makers are unknown, but the best known were the Panormo family, originally from Italy they came to London via Paris and They built guitars in the 'Spanish style' which were much more refined than the Spanish guitars of the time and were early users of the fan bracing later refined (some say to it's zenith) by Torres. I restored one London guitar a while back from the 1780s which is still the sweetest sounding guitar I have played.

I'll pop in to the V&A and get the definitive information on the instruments. It's quite close to my work.

By the way I currenty have a Venere to do some work on, and I'm also in the process of building an archlute based on a Venere, with slightly less restrained inlay than that one, mine uses gold and silver as well as Ivory!

Interesting stuff.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Yep, couldn't agree with Colin more. Cosmetics are the last thing one should judge a soundboard on. Grain spacing tells you something about the conditions the tree grew in, but its not enough to go on to select a good soundboard.

I think this tight grain fetish is mostly perpetuated by players who think they know something about guitars, or want to be perceived as such by their friends.

Those are great pictures Ricallo! Thanks for sharing. They really help us to retain a grasp on reality.

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Those are great pictures.  Thanks for sharing them with us.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Ditto on what Colin and Joshua have said about soundboard selection though I think it will take some courage on our part to change the public (player) perceptions of what is most desirable.

I'd bet the two guitars with the MOP in the rosettes are of Spanish origin......... 

 

I popped in to the V&A on Friday PM, and had a look at them, I was right about the Venere, and the Voboam. The top guitar is also, as I thought attributed to a London maker, but the second one is thought to be French. This does not mean that they were not made by Spanish builders, many moved up to London and Paris to serve the markets there.

I bet I could get the lute playable if they'd let me get my hands on it! The one I've got for work at the moment is very similar but with a plain neck veneer.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Grains per inch mean nothing!
Only the book writers and non -builders think they do!
Weight-is the most important (along with cut)not alot of run-out!
stiffness is not as important because you can ADD that to a top!
Just think how!
I've made great guitars with very flexible tops !

Be careful of old traditions that need to be reevaluated !

Mikewww.collinsguitars.com

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Mike Collins

Now we know where the MOP comes from! What is it with guitars that have all the circus jazz on them? The lutes are so refined. These must be 1800s with all the MOP. Its  embarasing!

 

Ive seen guitars from the 1600's that are amazing to look at, lutes also (New builds). But I bet they cant beat the old growth pre-pollution soundboards as stated here. A small bodied 1789's guitar that sounds the best, go figure.